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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Sinus rythm is crucial dennis. I've proved it over and over again, an excess of O2 is a significant deterrent to maintaining it. This is an
extraordinarily complex issue, and without question a talented CPR and 1st aid course is beyond words important. Such as how to differentiate between
a comatose cardiac and stroke victim. Like I have been preaching with O2 NOT being available, it is more than a hindrance, it is a vital missing
link. Getting oxygen saturated blood through a partially blocked cerebral artery is just as damned important as getting oxygen saturated blood to a
starved heart muscle. This is one area where I and much of the medical community are at odds. It is one of the key questions I pose when selecting a
cardiologist, the second being the importance of maintaining correct electrolyte balance. I was treated for THREE GAWDAMNED YEARS by Mexican and USA
cardiology specialists for angina pain. Until the day the RN walked in with my discharge papers and quipped. "Oh by the way did you know you are
severely anemic. ANEMIA? HEART PAIN? Red blood corpuscles NOT carrying enough blood to the heart. I ran not walked to the nearest el cheapo store and
purchased the cheapest iron, folic acid and more magnesium for maintaining freedom from atrial fibrillation. THREE YEARS HAVE passed without the need
for AMIODARONE, or ISOSORDIBE MONONITRATE. This does not instill a great deal of confidence in the medical community at large. The freedom from angina
pain has been a blessing. There should be a California Department Bureau of Doctor Repair. It would need 30,000 telephone lines free.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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CortezBlue
Super Nomad
Posts: 2213
Registered: 11-14-2006
Location: Fenix/San Phelipe
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You might want to let us in on the battery maintenance requirements, seems that even in hospital the unit defibrillators have had malfunction when
someone forgets to plug the cord in to charge the battery and fails in an emergency. | Quote: | Originally posted by CortezBlue
Yes, we bought one about a year ago. We have had our home in baja for many years, but decided it was probably cheap insurance not only for us, but
for our guests and neighbors.
We carry the unit in our vehicle just to be on the safe side, you never know what you may come across while driving. |
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Phillips unit, no plug
It is portable and the battery has a five year life, however, I plan on changing at 3 years
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Chinese low battery alarms are CHEAP and you can hear them through 3 rooms or 200 yards open air. Self powered.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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It is all about the time. As I understand, AED will not work unless the heart is not beating which means time is very limited unless CPR is used
until a AED is applied and then the outcome in rural areas is poor. Bahia Asuncion is at least 2 hours away from any type of minimal hospital
treatment so ...I guess the elephant in the room is ...what good is having one in town somewhere within a 10 minute time frame from a cardiac arrest
emergency and then no medical treatment for 2 hours? I really am trained and appreciate the usefulness of AEDs but I sure would rather have someone
at hand immediately trained in CPR and calling for help, than a panic about finding a AED in town. I totally support the placement of the device in
public areas where people are aware of them and there is a chance someone will go for it. Please lets push for trained ambulance attendants in rural
areas.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I'm with you 100% on this Redmesa. We need a massive overhaul of the system to help the aging baby boomers and our fellow expats. | Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
It is all about the time. As I understand, AED will not work unless the heart is not beating which means time is very limited unless CPR is used
until a AED is applied and then the outcome in rural areas is poor. Bahia Asuncion is at least 2 hours away from any type of minimal hospital
treatment so ...I guess the elephant in the room is ...what good is having one in town somewhere within a 10 minute time frame from a cardiac arrest
emergency and then no medical treatment for 2 hours? I really am trained and appreciate the usefulness of AEDs but I sure would rather have someone
at hand immediately trained in CPR and calling for help, than a panic about finding a AED in town. I totally support the placement of the device in
public areas where people are aware of them and there is a chance someone will go for it. Please lets push for trained ambulance attendants in rural
areas. |
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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What are the STATS ?
HOW significant is the so-called problem ?
How many people are Defibbed (or shown to be needing it) daily-weekly-monthly-yearly in any given area ?
How many of those Defibbed survive long-term ?
Cost-Benefit Ratio ?
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Has "The System" (IMSS Seguro Popular or ISSSTE) even TRIED to hold community 1st aid and CPR programs?
Poor "Fito" our ambulance driver is woefully unprepared for anything but driving.
FIVE MINUTES with no blood circulation and you're a goner. 99.7% certain mortality and the whopping .03% survivors would be vegetative. This does not
mean this is going to happen with a heart attack, it means if the heart stops, get out the stopwatch.
BTW placing any MIRROR right against the person's nostrils is by far the best way to determine if they have any respiration at all. A badly
fibrillating atria or ventricular chamber may be DIFFICULT to detect even when laying your ear on a victim's chest.
Try to smile left, then right side of your mouth, close one eyelid then the other, lift one arm then the other. If something seems weird swallow two
aspirin FAST and call for help. This is a sign of an oncoming stroke. Comments la dra?
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
.......Bahia Asuncion is at least 2 hours away from any type of minimal hospital treatment so .........
Please lets push for trained ambulance attendants in rural areas. |
That would be nice but I suspect it will not happen for a very, very long time. It requires money and better pay, and as you know, some of the time
in BA the workers go for quite a while with no pay and the ambulance drivers do other city work. That is why paying property taxes in town is so
important so the money stays there.
BA is not the place for a major medical event. Shoot, it is not even a good place for a minor one. When I fell and broke my nose, they did exactly
all the wrong things in Guerrero Negro.
Real EMTs would be wonderful even if you still had to pay for the gas for the Ambulance.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
That would be nice but I suspect it will not happen for a very, very long time. It requires money and better pay, and as you know, some of the time
in BA the workers go for quite a while with no pay and the ambulance drivers do other city work. That is why paying property taxes in town is so
important so the money stays there.
BA is not the place for a major medical event. Shoot, it is not even a good place for a minor one. When I fell and broke my nose, they did exactly
all the wrong things in Guerrero Negro.
Real EMTs would be wonderful even if you still had to pay for the gas for the Ambulance. |
One thing worth considering is an ex-pat volunteer service. That's how our fire department was started. These efforts can morph into effective
services while keeping the costs of development under control.
Just never relinquish control of assets to outside agencies....city...state...nobody..... who will try to control your donated machines etc.. That's
how it works here.
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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I am with you Dennis. If all the ex-pats in BA got CPR and AED training it would be a great first step. I could even bring down a qualified
instructor from St. John's ambulance (maybe) to give the basics. There are many retired people who have still maintained their certifications and
have time on their hands. BUT, I know the Mexican Red Cross really frowns and any interference in their programs. (be they what they are). I will
check around when we are next back in BA. We miss Stan there. He was the go to guy.
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Diane I know it takes money but basic first aid is a 6 hour course and it save lives. Those of us in BA could all chip in and afford to fund that.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
BUT, I know the Mexican Red Cross really frowns and any interference in their programs. (be they what they are). |
It's a shame they might be an obstacle in the development of a neighborhood-watch type life saving program, but if they're incapable, I'd just go
around them watching my back in the process.
The Red Cross at times can display way too much self-importance and I would keep track of any ineptitude on their part that was dangerous. Might come
in handy at a later date.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
I am with you Dennis. If all the ex-pats in BA got CPR and AED training it would be a great first step. I could even bring down a qualified
instructor from St. John's ambulance (maybe) to give the basics. There are many retired people who have still maintained their certifications and
have time on their hands. BUT, I know the Mexican Red Cross really frowns and any interference in their programs...... |
As with everything, it is always better for these things to come from the locals with local buy-in and involvement --- delegacion, co-ops, etc ---
like the lifeguard program.
You might want to talk with Jamie if you have ideas you want to bounce around. He jumped on the Lifeguard Program quickly and got involved and
helped make it happen. If I remember, he has some basic first aid and cpr training, but I won't swear to it.
This basic training could help, maybe. When they can, the locals head for Ensenada, La Paz, or Tijuana for serious medical care.
BTW --- on edit, the local clinic is a decent first aid place.
[Edited on 9-4-2013 by DianaT]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
As with everything, it is always better for these things to come from the locals with local buy-in and involvement --- delegacion, co-ops, etc ---
like the lifeguard program.
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Fine...if they can guarantee a "Time sensitive response" to a life threatening situation. I can't help but think their culture may be an issue, and
that wouldn't be quaint at the wrong time.
What's wrong in being proactive beyond the point of giving money? 
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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This is a bit different from the Lifeguard Program. For me this is all about taking care of myself and friends right now. I have a first aid ticket
but would be reluctant to handle a Mexican emergency unless I knew the people very well. Things can go wrong very quickly and the first rule in First
Aid Training is once you start you commit and stay until the issue is resolve. If Jaimie or the clinic (which I have not had a good experience with)
wants to learn first aid I will certainly help out where I can. The Co-op probably has their own programs and I would never venture into that
territory. I think the Lifeguards have a bit of water safety first aid in their toolbox. Medical emergencies can happen to the old and young so I do
not think it is just about us old-timers with bad hearts. It is just something all of us should know a little if not a lot about...cause "chit
happens".
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Red Cross, Green Cactus, is there ANYONE willing to come to Asuncion and give basic CPR 1st aid courses? Not anyone I have ever talked to. Could
someone approach doctors without borders or maybe the rotary club for assistance?
With the wind, wooden crackerboxes, and part time low pressure water, if a home ever goes up in flames the only productive act would to be for
neighbors to bring wieners and marshmallows. A pumper would be great and about as likely as seeing a coconut grove sprout on the beach. Dirt cheap
smoke alarms sat on the shelves in the Miramar for months before Eduardo moved them upstairs to be forgotten forever.
Plastic garlands of flowers would go over as big sellers for this panteon.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
This is a bit different from the Lifeguard Program. For me this is all about taking care of myself and friends right now. I have a first aid ticket
but would be reluctant to handle a Mexican emergency unless I knew the people very well. Things can go wrong very quickly and the first rule in First
Aid Training is once you start you commit and stay until the issue is resolve. If Jaimie or the clinic (which I have not had a good experience with)
wants to learn first aid I will certainly help out where I can. The Co-op probably has their own programs and I would never venture into that
territory. I think the Lifeguards have a bit of water safety first aid in their toolbox. Medical emergencies can happen to the old and young so I do
not think it is just about us old-timers with bad hearts. It is just something all of us should know a little if not a lot about...cause "chit
happens". |
Opps, I am sorry. I guess I didn't read carefully. I did not know this was mainly about ex-pats. The more who know first-aid, the better.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Opps, I am sorry. I guess I didn't read carefully. I did not know this was mainly about ex-pats. The more who know first-aid, the better.
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It's about ex-pats helping everybody. Nothing exclusive.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Most of the IMSS and other hospitals and health care programs in Mexico have regular CPR programs but most of them are in Spanish. There are so many
resources online to learn CPR and ACLS. Try and get the basics down with a CPR class online. Every little bit helps. | Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Has "The System" (IMSS Seguro Popular or ISSSTE) even TRIED to hold community 1st aid and CPR programs?
Poor "Fito" our ambulance driver is woefully unprepared for anything but driving.
FIVE MINUTES with no blood circulation and you're a goner. 99.7% certain mortality and the whopping .03% survivors would be vegetative. This does not
mean this is going to happen with a heart attack, it means if the heart stops, get out the stopwatch.
BTW placing any MIRROR right against the person's nostrils is by far the best way to determine if they have any respiration at all. A badly
fibrillating atria or ventricular chamber may be DIFFICULT to detect even when laying your ear on a victim's chest.
Try to smile left, then right side of your mouth, close one eyelid then the other, lift one arm then the other. If something seems weird swallow two
aspirin FAST and call for help. This is a sign of an oncoming stroke. Comments la dra? |
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EdZeranski
Nomad
Posts: 290
Registered: 11-4-2008
Location: Ocean Beach/Borrego Springs
Member Is Offline
Mood: Si! Como no???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
While atrial fibrillation can be tolerated for months and years, ..... |
My case exactly! For years during work related physicals the docs said "Oh you have a bit of arythmia" None ever gave any weight to it or further
comment so on it went until I passed out after coming home from the post office. Now its an aspirin and metaprolol everyday and its been fine for 3
years. I do know there was medical equipment in the Loreto hospital that was unmaintained or had no trained operators. When going South I take my
TCCC, Tactical Combat Casualty Care triage kit with me. Luckily I did not need it in Iraq or Afghanistan but it would be helpful if the first on an
accident scene .
EdZ KG6UTS
Ocean Beach/Borrego Springs
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