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Mexitron
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Bajabuddha---yah, good stuff!!!
Barry---actually I'm working for a client, a professor at UCI, who is putting together a study concerning exactly that issue in Borrego Springs. She
is working with the farmers, geologists, and water department to try and figure out what's going on. Of course they could solve any water problems
out there by putting the kibosh on the citrus farms....
....I would imagine each replenishment scenario is different for each geo-locale so hard to give a blanket answer. In Borrego the wettest years spill
water into Clark Dry Lake bed and I don't think any water travels out of the "sink" area. Still, having spent a bit of time out there its hard to
imagine the infrequent wet years can keep up with the replenishment---the place is an oven for 5 months a year (my client has said that some folks
recommend cutting down all the native trees like Palo Verdes that pull water out of Coyote Creek, the main constant source of water out there).
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Osprey
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How much trouble is it to age date fossil water? We are going to have to do that in Baja Sur soon enough. Maybe it would shake things up a little
when hydro pros see how long it would take to recharge what we are stealing every hour of every day.
We only have 45 Cm available per person, per year. The village uses 120 and my wife and I use twice that much. They have about 4500 Cm in Mexico and
22,000 Cm in Central America.
[Edited on 9-26-2013 by Osprey]
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
my client has said that some folks recommend cutting down all the native trees like Palo Verdes that pull water out of Coyote Creek
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Or ...
We could get rid of those lawns around that central area.
Er ... I mean the Rams Hill Country club and it's golf course.
[Edited on 9-26-2013 by Skipjack Joe]
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bajabuddha
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OK, here goes again. The 'fossil' water is in the huge synclines of southwest Baja, from the Viscaino desert down to Mag Bay. Those underground
lakes are 'trapped', and not replenishable. The huge agricultural growth of the Constitution / Insurgentes areas are the result of mining that
aquifer.
San Ignacio springs are fed from the very large expanses of the Sierra San Fransiscos to the north, fed through lots of porous basalt (which comprises
most of the northern ranges there) and once up in those canyons, as well as the canyons above Mulege and Loreto on the EAST side of the Peninsular
Divide are all kinds of springs, pools, blue fan palms (the only indigenous palm tree to Baja) and lots and LOTS of archaeology dating back also
thousands of years. Where there's good water, there's good breweries... er, berries and such.
Dave K, we had a skiff of 'karfunda' (i hate the 'S' word) on the top of Tres Virgenes just this last January. Only lasted a day, but ..... SKI BAJA
!!!!!
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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Barry A.
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Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
my client has said that some folks recommend cutting down all the native trees like Palo Verdes that pull water out of Coyote Creek
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Or ...
We could get rid of those lawns around that central area.
Er ... I mean the Rams Hill Country club and it's golf course.
[Edited on 9-26-2013 by Skipjack Joe] |
"Rams Hill Golf Course" in Borrego Springs has been defunct for several years now, I believe. Casa Zorro also has been closed down for several years.
Casa Zorro has been bought, and may have already opened back up, but I don't believe the Rams Hill Golf course will reopen any time soon. I could be
wrong here. The housing area associated with Rams Hill is still viable and functioning.
However, your point, Skipjack, is still valid as there are at least 3 other Golf Country Clubs still operating, with no intention of closing down and
they have full historical water rights I believe, so not much you can do without their cooperation. Of course much of the water used to water the
'greens' goes back into the ground, but a significant amount also evaporates, and is lost forever to that aquafir.
Thanks to the others for more explanations of Aquafirs, and on-going studies. I still believe that there is some replenishment to the Borrego Springs
aquafir as it does fluxuate some from year to year according to the Water District meetings I have attended. The trend is "down" however which is
very worriesome.
The aquafirs in Baja are even more worriesome as we are talking about serious depletion by farming, and not much planning for the future from that
standpoint as I understand it. The outlook is grim!!!
Barry
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bajabuddha
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Alas, Barry... so it goes with literally most of the world.
I do have an alternative suggestion:
CONSERVE WATER. Drink more cerveza, and chower with your steady. 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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Ateo
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Lots of good info in this thread. Thanks all.
Desalinization will probably come to Baja on a larger scale someday.
Better hope those gas tanks at Pemex Vizcaino are double walled and properly monitored! They don't need ground water contamination!
I'm just riffing here............Ha ha.
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David K
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Good answer for the San Ignacio River source... Now, how about that leaky white hillside near Arroyo El Volcán or the Santa María creek source? Many
thanks... I love geology and Baja has it all!
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabuddha
I do have an alternative suggestion:
CONSERVE WATER. Drink more cerveza, and chower with your steady.
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Actually when you think about it we use much more water than we need to. During my baja trips we often just freshen up with baby wipes for days and
take full showers much less frequently than we would have back home. And we don't seem to be very much worse off.
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elbeau
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Good answer for the San Ignacio River source... Now, how about that leaky white hillside near Arroyo El Volcán or the Santa María creek source? Many
thanks... I love geology and Baja has it all! |
El Volcán is a soda spring from what I understand. The water mixes with something deep down which causes upward pressure. A geologist could
certainly explain it better than me, but my understanding is that this is what causes the El Volcán pools, springs, and geysers.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Actually when you think about it we use much more water than we need to. During my baja trips we often just freshen up with baby wipes for days and
take full showers much less frequently than we would have back home. And we don't seem to be very much worse off. |
Yep, you are right, skipJack. My wife and I use a 3-gal. RAIN SHOWER bag (much easier to handle than a 5-gal one) mounted on the side of our small
camper shell, which is good for both of us, even washing our hair. I use about 1 gal., and my wife the remaining 2 gal., using "navy-shower"
techniques (shut shower off after getting wet, soap up, and use the bulk of the water to rinse off). Our camper's tank only holds 13 gal. so you get
use to being 'water-thrifty', and we always fill the RAIN SHOWER with water from pools and streams, when possible.
Yes, this is a great thread!!!
Barry
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David K
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Right you are elbeau... In my photo of the white slope, you can see the top of the hill (high point of the area) is just above the springs, so
pressure must be pushing the water up, against gravity! The water is not hot, it is cool, and it bubbles from the soda (CaCO3) action. In Minch's
Roadside Geology book, it is the only error I found (page 60) where he says they are hot springs making the onyx there. The famous cold water geyser
dome is located about a half mile to the south of this white slope/hill, in the Arroyo el Vocán. On my visits in 1974 and 2000, I did not know to walk
down the arroyo and thought this set of springs was El Volcán! I have been to the real Volcán in 2003, 2006, 2011, but have yet to witness the monthly
eruption of the geyser!
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bajabuddha
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I went to look for that 'hot spring' back about 199(7?) and found the springs, and the very beautiful travertine formations, which indicate all the
'soda' there. Now i'm just guessing on this, but when i was a kid (yes, i really was one once) we had tub-toys you'd fill with baking soda, and
they'd splutter around the tub for a while when the water hit the soda. Now, if there is (and obviously is) a large deposit that helped create El
Marmol mine material as well as the spring and guyser, and if underground water seeps to it and creates pressure when contacting the 'soda',
eventually KA-BLOOEY! Which is how many cold-water guysers erupt. There are two very near Green River Utah, both man-made from oil exploration when
drill pipes tapped soda deposits and water entered. One still erupts twice a day (right on the banks of Green River, gorgeous travertine from it) and
the other is boarded up behind an old gas station. The second was touted as a 'natural wonder' and fenced, with admission sold to show the
eruptions.... once people were in, the owner would open a hidden water valve to the well shaft, and the rest is history.
Rubber Ducky, you're the one...... you make bathtime lots of fun!
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Cool story!
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Cool story! |
I'll say!!! "Cool" indeed, and I think correct. When my son and I and another couple canoed the Green River 26 years ago we stopped to see that
Geyser in the boonies by the river -----it was amazing, and yes it did erupt while we were there. Fun, fun!!!! Was not aware of the one in town.
Barry
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vgabndo
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I've broached this subject before here, and I still think the idea has enormous applicability to Baja. Sea water greenhouses are working all over the
world. The temperature differential between sea water and the sea water saturated hot desert air passing through a greenhouse is used to condense
distilled water out of the air. The system can operate on solar or wind power. The down side is that extra salty water is returned to the ocean, and
if this isn't diluted adequately, can have a negative effect on sea life directly adjacent to the outflow. As much as 20 times more water is being
generated than is needed to grow the flourishing crops of hydroponic tomatoes in the greenhouses. (Australia)
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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bajabuddha
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Cool story! |
I'll say!!! "Cool" indeed, and I think correct. When my son and I and another couple canoed the Green River 26 years ago we stopped to see that
Geyser in the boonies by the river -----it was amazing, and yes it did erupt while we were there. Fun, fun!!!! Was not aware of the one in town.
Barry |
The other guyser isn't in Green River, but behind the old gas station at Woodside, Ut. which is about 20 miles north of Green River heading towards
Price, Ut. The old 'fence' wall is still visible behind the station. All private property, no trespassing. It's where the Price River Gorge starts
its' junction through the Book Cliffs to the Green River, which i've been blessed to have 'duckied' through many, many years ago. Fantastic region.
I have camped at the guyser by the river many times also, and been woken up in the middle of the night on full moons by the 'big whoosh' and man, what
a rush. Makes you wanna dance in the spray, but i don't suggest it... people just seem to have a need to drop rocks down the hole; bad medicine.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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David K
Honored Nomad
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GEYSER (unless the cool ones are spelled different?)
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bajabuddha
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Ah, David, you're absolutely correct, except for most on this site spelled........
.........
.........................
.......................................
...................................................... wait for it...............
GEEZER.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64757
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabuddha
Ah, David, you're absolutely correct, except for most on this site spelled........
.........
.........................
.......................................
...................................................... wait for it...............
GEEZER. |
 Yup, why
not... I just turned 56, so I am over the hill!
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