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Ateo
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I don't think using your eyes to look at ocean levels is considered scientific. It's probably shifting sands.
This stuff happens over large periods of time.
Fast forward 100 years and you may notice a change, but day to day, year to year, nope.
I could be wrong and I'm willing to change my mind.
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rts551
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
On sea levels---until (if) there is a significant rise we wouldn't likely notice it on the west coast and Baja except for extreme events---that is, we
won't notice it at normal tidal flow since there's a 8 or nine foot difference between high and low tide and most tides aren't that extreme. We would
only notice it at the extreme high winter tides and even then when there's an extra push from a storm or something to push the water beyond former
parameters. |
I don't understand. If the tides are getting higher... then one should see it on the beach. (same if they were getting lower).
We have noticed the change here on the Pacific ocean side. Over the last year the water seems to be getting higher and higher at high tide. Maybe
its the shifting sands on the beach..or cliff erosion...but the water is definitely higher and eating away at some of the bluffs.
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Well, let's say your extreme winter tides are 7'6". But most of the high tides are around 5 or 6 feet---you won't notice a few inches over the normal
tides but you will notice it with the extreme tides since it will push water higher than before. |
But aren't tides measured against a mean and therefore a 5-6 high tide 5 years ago might be lower than a 5-6 ft high Tide today?
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You might be right there, don't know if they change the mean. |
I think I found it. National Tidal Datum Epoch: The specific 19-year period adopted by the National Ocean Service as the official time segment over
which tide observations are taken and reduced to obtain mean values (e.g., mean lower low water, etc.) for tidal datums. It is necessary for
standardization because of periodic and apparent secular trends in sea level. The present NTDE is 1983 through 2001 and is actively considered for
revision every 20-25 years. Tidal datums in certain regions with anomolous sea level changes (Alaska, Gulf of Mexico) are calculated on a Modified
5-Year Epoch.
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
On sea levels---until (if) there is a significant rise we wouldn't likely notice it on the west coast and Baja except for extreme events---that is, we
won't notice it at normal tidal flow since there's a 8 or nine foot difference between high and low tide and most tides aren't that extreme. We would
only notice it at the extreme high winter tides and even then when there's an extra push from a storm or something to push the water beyond former
parameters. |
hmmm..rising sea levels, many here have lived on the coast for many years and surely have seen evidence of such. those of us from the ventura area
have probably walked out to the ventura rivermouth to see the remnants of the WWII panama gun mounts that are now completely underwater at high tide.
you telling me that the beach is just sinking and the water level is the same? 
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monoloco
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These guys measure sea level for a living, sea level change cannot be measured by comparing it to a land mass because land masses are not static. This
is their conclusion based on very accurate instruments and testing procedures:
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html
Is sea level rising?
Sea level is rising at an increasing rate.
With the majority of Americans living in coastal states, rising water levels can have potentially large impacts.
There is strong evidence that global sea level is now rising at an increased rate and will continue to rise during this century.
While studies show that sea levels changed little from AD 0 until 1900, sea levels began to climb in the 20th century.
The two major causes of global sea-level rise are thermal expansion caused by the warming of the oceans (since water expands as it warms) and the loss
of land-based ice (such as glaciers and polar ice caps) due to increased melting.
Records and research show that sea level has been steadily rising at a rate of 0.04 to 0.1 inches per year since 1900.
This rate may be increasing. Since 1992, new methods of satellite altimetry (the measurement of elevation or altitude) indicate a rate of rise of 0.12
inches per year.
This is a significantly larger rate than the sea-level rise averaged over the last several thousand years.
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Skipjack Joe
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Ateo's first post was the most intelligent one posted here on the subject in my opinion.
The subject has been discussed so many times that repeating yourself is just not worth the effort. Nobody ever changes their minds or even listens.
And that's why the answer to Y,Y,Y is actually Y,Y,N. Nothing will be done except to build up barriers to prevent the seas from inundating areas by
nations that can afford them.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
But even Aristotle's greatest fans -- and I count myself among them -- have to concede that he got some things so very wrong.
For instance here are some examples I can quote: (Ah...history! Don't you just love it?)
He writes that women have fewer teeth than men. It's unclear why he thinks this..maybe because he only counted young women’s teeth, without the
wisdoms?
He thinks that men have hotter blood than women, have a more important role in reproduction, and are generally more perfect.
He notes that if you "mutilate" a boy -- lop off his testicles -- his voice never breaks and he never grows bald: he becomes feminized.
I don't think he thought much of women, as in his 'Politics' he doesn't even consider the possibility that women could be citizens.
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If I have it right one of his most interesting theories was that women were a product of 'arrested development'. The natural development of a human
was to grown from childhood to manhood. Women, with a physique that to him resembled that of prepubescent men were similar to undeveloped men and were
simply beings who didn't achieve full development.
I really don't think that Aristotle was particularly antagonistic towards the opposite sex. Don't forget that as little as 200 years ago scientists
felt that men were intellectually superior to women because their craniums were 20% larger. Of course, at the time there was zero understanding of how
the brain functions. So, more neurons - more intelligence. Shaquille O'Neal must be a genius.
P.S. Art objects don't belong in a museum because of how good they are now but because of how good they were when they were painted. Many can paint a
Mona Lisa now.
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by Skipjack Joe]
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BajaRat
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Posts: 1303
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
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Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
These guys measure sea level for a living, sea level change cannot be measured by comparing it to a land mass because land masses are not static. This
is their conclusion based on very accurate instruments and testing procedures:
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html
Is sea level rising?
Sea level is rising at an increasing rate.
With the majority of Americans living in coastal states, rising water levels can have potentially large impacts.
There is strong evidence that global sea level is now rising at an increased rate and will continue to rise during this century.
While studies show that sea levels changed little from AD 0 until 1900, sea levels began to climb in the 20th century.
The two major causes of global sea-level rise are thermal expansion caused by the warming of the oceans (since water expands as it warms) and the loss
of land-based ice (such as glaciers and polar ice caps) due to increased melting.
Records and research show that sea level has been steadily rising at a rate of 0.04 to 0.1 inches per year since 1900.
This rate may be increasing. Since 1992, new methods of satellite altimetry (the measurement of elevation or altitude) indicate a rate of rise of 0.12
inches per year.
This is a significantly larger rate than the sea-level rise averaged over the last several thousand years.
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by monoloco] |
JESUS !
And now were supposed to believe science
Whats this world coming to
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Glidergeek
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Location: Hesperia Ca
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"This rate may be increasing. Since 1992, new methods of satellite altimetry (the measurement of elevation or altitude) indicate a rate of rise of
0.12 inches per year."
So last time I went to the beach I did notice a 2.5" rise since 1990
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Osprey
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Posts: 3694
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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I didn't read the EPA report but I can guarantee that it contains no mention of Milankovitch Cycles (earth wobble). Somewhere in between the deniers
and the true believers is an exact science dealing with how the earth moves in relation to axis and orbit. Even a quick study of the findings might
convince some open minds that natural changes, over 26,000 year cycles would certainly trump the idea of spending a big part of the planet's resources
to what?: change the movements of the earth, change it's speed, move the sun?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
On rising water levels, I realize that the Sea of Cortez may be affected a mite differently than the open Pacific. But this is reality and what
happens in Coyote Bay. There is a concrete sea wall in front of many of the Coyote Bay homes that was built about 45 years ago. The sea
levels have not changed on that wall in those 45 years...yet. We do get some very high tides in August and during other werewolf times, but
nothing too alarming. Just saying....
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by Pompano] |
Thank you Roger, as one who can remember driving the old road along Bahia Concepcion in 1966 where it was at sea level and it is still there almost 50
years later, we can see the sea isn't swallowing the land by rising. Coast erosion is normal but the level of the ocean has been unchanged or so tiny
a change in our life that this panic is reminiscent of the story of Chicken Little.
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grizzlyfsh95
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Breaking news. The UN has just announced that Bigfoot is real, and that everyone can stop searching for him. There will be some who don't believe it,
but you know how backward they are. Imagine, the impeccable reputation of the UN questioned by these ignorant deniers, liars, cheats, crooks, and
undesirables. Re-education..that's it...or death.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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woody with a view
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Posts: 15939
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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UFO's are real too. that same guvmint said aliens will be found withing 10-20 years. I'm thinking they already are but big O doesn't want to deal with
anymore negative press on his watch!
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
On rising water levels, I realize that the Sea of Cortez may be affected a mite differently than the open Pacific. But this is reality and what
happens in Coyote Bay. There is a concrete sea wall in front of many of the Coyote Bay homes that was built about 45 years ago. The sea
levels have not changed on that wall in those 45 years...yet. We do get some very high tides in August and during other werewolf times, but
nothing too alarming. Just saying....
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by Pompano] |
Thank you Roger, as one who can remember driving the old road along Bahia Concepcion in 1966 where it was at sea level and it is still there almost 50
years later, we can see the sea isn't swallowing the land by rising. Coast erosion is normal but the level of the ocean has been unchanged or so tiny
a change in our life that this panic is reminiscent of the story of Chicken Little. |
explain this.
hmmm..rising sea levels, many here have lived on the coast for many years and surely have seen evidence of such. those of us from the ventura area
have probably walked out to the ventura rivermouth to see the remnants of the WWII panama gun mounts that are now completely underwater at high tide.
you telling me that the beach is just sinking and the water level is the same?
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monoloco
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Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
On rising water levels, I realize that the Sea of Cortez may be affected a mite differently than the open Pacific. But this is reality and what
happens in Coyote Bay. There is a concrete sea wall in front of many of the Coyote Bay homes that was built about 45 years ago. The sea
levels have not changed on that wall in those 45 years...yet. We do get some very high tides in August and during other werewolf times, but
nothing too alarming. Just saying....
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by Pompano] |
Thank you Roger, as one who can remember driving the old road along Bahia Concepcion in 1966 where it was at sea level and it is still there almost 50
years later, we can see the sea isn't swallowing the land by rising. Coast erosion is normal but the level of the ocean has been unchanged or so tiny
a change in our life that this panic is reminiscent of the story of Chicken Little. |
So I guess you think
that all the sophisticated instruments that NOAA scientists use to measure sea level aren't as accurate as your anecdotal evidence? It would be very
difficult to perceive a 2" rise in sea level over the period of 50 years without some sort of instrumentation. We can argue the reasons for global
climate change, and what the response should be, but the empirical evidence all indicates that it is happening.
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by monoloco]
[Edited on 11-3-2014 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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willardguy
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Posts: 6451
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" as one who can remember driving the old road along Bahia Concepcion in 1966 where it was at sea level and it is still there almost 50 years later"
hold on there hotrod, so you're tellin us that at nine years old you looked up from your etch-a-sketch long enough to make note of the water level as
you past by bay of concepcion so you could compare it 50 years later! FASCINATING!
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DaliDali
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Wouldn't it make sense if the air temps were rising (global warming) due to increased and more intense sunshine as claimed, that there would be more
evaporation of the sea water?
Enough to mitigate any ice cap melting that is reported to be the culprit in rising sea levels?
More sunshine and higher temps.....higher rates of evaporation?
More evaporation leads to more moisture in the air and more rainfall as a result? Which ends up in the sea either by way of runoff and directly
falling into the sea.
(and I am not even a white robed Bunsen burner geek)
In the end, I believe Mother Nature will figure it all out and make any corrections as need be.....all without any transfer of wealth to poorer
countries or Al's LearJet
It's been that way since Adam and Eve stalked the forbidden fruit....when it comes to warmth, cold, rainfall or any other atmospheric
phenomena.....Mother Nature rules the world.
Death and taxes is a constant......the rest is shear speculation based on models and driven by the almight buck.
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nobodylikesyouanyway
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Attention all Dupes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-m09lKtYT4
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
Wouldn't it make sense if the air temps were rising (global warming) due to increased and more intense sunshine as claimed, that there would be more
evaporation of the sea water?
Enough to mitigate any ice cap melting that is reported to be the culprit in rising sea levels?
More sunshine and higher temps.....higher rates of evaporation?
More evaporation leads to more moisture in the air and more rainfall as a result? Which ends up in the sea either by way of runoff and directly
falling into the sea.
(and I am not even a white robed Bunsen burner geek)
In the end, I believe Mother Nature will figure it all out and make any corrections as need be.....all without any transfer of wealth to poorer
countries or Al's LearJet
It's been that way since Adam and Eve stalked the forbidden fruit....when it comes to warmth, cold, rainfall or any other atmospheric
phenomena.....Mother Nature rules the world.
Death and taxes is a constant......the rest is shear speculation based on models and driven by the almight buck. |
I don't think Adam and Eve were given a car or provided with electricity. They did not have aerosol cans, nor did they spill a lot of oil in the
ocean. Mother nature might not be happy with what we are doing to her!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18127
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Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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A c-cktail party debate about climate change is best way to gage a person's basic reasoning abilities in STEM. The denialists stick out like a sore
thumb, when they ramble on about scientists lieing and Al Gore flying in a private jet and fleecing the populace,... get them to discuss something
scientific and non-climate related, the conversation will leave you shocked at how far the decline of western civilization has progressed.
p.s. you don't want to trust any of the denialists to be your MD, dentist, engineer, etc. Watch out for the loopy ones! Their poor reasoning skills
pervade all aspects of their being!
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monoloco
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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Oh really, how do you explain that since 2007 when that
video was made, the seven lowest Arctic sea-ice extents took place?
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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