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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I don't know how some of you guys get all that stuff out of this, but my thoughts are for the Mexican people in Baja California who SUFFER financially
when tourists stop coming. It isn't any more complicated than that. This is a Baja forum, not a U.S. forum about northbound visitors to the U.S.. Talk
to you congressman if you want it easier for Mexicans to come north through the legal borders. I have no problem with that.
As for Baja bound travelers:
My LESS government is the BEST government solution opens up the flood gates of money that previously flowed into Baja when the border wasn't
complicated with regulations and fees just to begin one's vacation. In the 70's, 80's, 90's, San Felipe was packed on every 3 day weekend, Easter
Break, New Years week, etc.
The other group that is harmed are working American families, on a budget, made worse by the economic disaster of the past 6 years, who would love to
camp on a beach or mountain or desert in Baja for just a little bit of freedom, but the hassles or fears of Mexico travel keeps them away... and again
the MEXICAN people of Baja are denied the income that previously went their way.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18125
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | I don't know how some of you guys get all that stuff out of this, but my thoughts are for the Mexican people in Baja California who SUFFER financially
when tourists stop coming. It isn't any more complicated than that. This is a Baja forum, not a U.S. forum about northbound visitors to the U.S.. Talk
to you congressman if you want it easier for Mexicans to come north through the legal borders. I have no problem with that.
As for Baja bound travelers:
My LESS government is the BEST government solution opens up the flood gates of money that previously flowed into Baja when the border wasn't
complicated with regulations and fees just to begin one's vacation. In the 70's, 80's, 90's, San Felipe was packed on every 3 day weekend, Easter
Break, New Years week, etc.
The other group that is harmed are working American families, on a budget, made worse by the economic disaster of the past 6 years, who would love to
camp on a beach or mountain or desert in Baja for just a little bit of freedom, but the hassles or fears of Mexico travel keeps them away... and again
the MEXICAN people of Baja are denied the income that previously went their way. |
Dk,
The reason many gringos stopped going to Mexico via land is crime stories in the news.
I know many San Diego people with passports and they travel abroad, but they have heard stories about Mexico and don't want to go there.
Red tape at the border is inconsequential to most people.
The economy has recovered. get over it - you need to move on with your life and quit blaming Obama and the democrats for all of your own problems
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bajacamper
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Posts: 113
Registered: 2-21-2009
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Hiked up the hill at San Ysidro today into Mexico, passport, sentri and passport cards in hand. Two ladies inside the area you pass through to be
checked. Neither looked up. No questions asked. Driving? Quien sabe1
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I don't know how some of you guys get all that stuff out of this, but my thoughts are for the Mexican people in Baja California who SUFFER financially
when tourists stop coming. |
Take a guess, what percentage of the peninsula's economy is based upon Americans walking and driving across the border?
I'd guess 1/2 of one percent. Just a guess.
What do you guys think?
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bajasusan/a
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Posts: 96
Registered: 6-23-2015
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i think the extremely negative cultural impact of USAmericans on the Baja outweighs tourist dollars, especially when one considers a city like la paz,
which has enriched a few families while putting many more families out of business. the more tourists' demands that everything be like the usa --
malls, golf courses, fancy nonmexican restaurants, etc. -- the poorer the country will get in all kinds of ways by catering to them. just ask the
mexicans who have lived for generations in cabo san lucas or todos santos.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajasusan/a | | i think the extremely negative cultural impact of USAmericans on the Baja outweighs tourist dollars, especially when one considers a city like la paz,
which has enriched a few families while putting many more families out of business. the more tourists' demands that everything be like the usa --
malls, golf courses, fancy nonmexican restaurants, etc. -- the poorer the country will get in all kinds of ways by catering to them. just ask the
mexicans who have lived for generations in cabo san lucas or todos santos. |
Interesting thoughts... La Paz has long been an island far far from manufacturing and modern conveniences until recently over the last decade. The
demand for big box stores and consumerism is fueled by a population of diverse people who are largely from Mexico and a minority of US North Americans
who generally bring the things they want from the North since it i cheaper to bring it than buy it. It is unfortunate that the population drives
purchasing from larger stores, as opposed to small local stores, while both of those stores are owned by Mexican companies.
People demanding rustic, traditional goods include North Americans who visit local artisans and organic farmers.
The overall population of La Paz is largely Mexican who are diverse from all over Mexico. Acknowledge that for seemingly ever it was impossible to buy
modern goods and if you could the costs were outrageous. So these conveniences of big box and small convenience stores brings equality, fairness and
competitiveness to the region. Pacenos shop shop shop like there is no tomorrow.
If you want to encourage change, to reduce the loss of economy that big box stores created by shipping all the money away, it will require thoughtful
education and partnership with local Mexicans and all people. And don't look to large foundations or charities since they are the ones most often
connected to big box stores.
I make it my practice to visit each small store I can throughout Baja and buy something and meet the people, that is where the quality, friendships
and cultural experiences exist.
[Edited on 6-30-2015 by gnukid]
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bajasusan/a
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Registered: 6-23-2015
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interesting thoughts, as well, sir. although the literally hundreds of fishermen whose livelihood was stolen by the resorts along the cabo gold coast
that have a legal right to restrict access to the pacific but a moral obligation not to interfere with local commerce might disagree about what is
"fair". as would all of my adopted mexican family who are three generations in la paz, and all of my paceno friends whose hearts are broken by the
incredible ugliness and arrogance of the developments on the hillsides between downtown and the ferries. pave paradise and put up a parking lot is the
usamerican mentality, so tourists need to keep expanding their geography because they have to leave behind all the places they have ruined with their
mighty dollars. la paz needs ecotourism and instead has a gary player golf course.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I don't know how some of you guys get all that stuff out of this, but my thoughts are for the Mexican people in Baja California who SUFFER financially
when tourists stop coming. |
Take a guess, what percentage of the peninsula's economy is based upon Americans walking and driving across the border?
I'd guess 1/2 of one percent. Just a guess.
What do you guys think? |
I was talking only about the population that depends (or has depended) on tourist dollars... shops, campos, restaurants, sport fishing, Pemex
stations, etc.. It is so easy to not interfere with business and prosperity, but government sometimes can't help itself.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajasusan/a | | interesting thoughts, as well, sir. although the literally hundreds of fishermen whose livelihood was stolen by the resorts along the cabo gold coast
that have a legal right to restrict access to the pacific but a moral obligation not to interfere with local commerce might disagree about what is
"fair". as would all of my adopted mexican family who are three generations in la paz, and all of my paceno friends whose hearts are broken by the
incredible ugliness and arrogance of the developments on the hillsides between downtown and the ferries. pave paradise and put up a parking lot is the
usamerican mentality, so tourists need to keep expanding their geography because they have to leave behind all the places they have ruined with their
mighty dollars. la paz needs ecotourism and instead has a gary player golf course. |
Cabo is a different case than La Paz. Cabo was built by Mexico to improve its economy after the model of Acapulco whose greatest resource is the beach
front. There are over 1 million visitors a year to Cabo about 35% are domestic Mexicans. I don't particularly like it but it is a resource for income
of nearly 1 billion dollars annually and is one of the highest standards of living for Mexico. People enjoy living and working there.
Eco tourism has grown tremendously in La Paz based on the support for the model. Now there are many many pangas taking divers snorkeling every day
where there were few before. More than 20-30 leave our beach daily. And there is still excellent fishing as well. There are over 100,000 visitors
annually to La Paz and a majority are domestic Mexicans.
It seems what you are driving at is that the economic models created by Mexico and the Mexican corporations are not beneficial to avg local Mexican
workers and that the model is exploitive of the local resources and labor force who do not benefit? That is a systemic issue in Mexico not planned nor
created or caused by USA visitors.
It is incorrect to blame USA visitors for the exploitation, in fact, likely, Mexico's geographic relationship to USA and its visitors is what is
driving up the wages and standard of living and requirement to meet best (better) ecological practices for labor, fishing, recycling, and reduce
waste.
Let's advocate for US/Mexico partnership between residents of the continent with respect for people and for best use of resources to reduce damage to
the environment and encourage businesses to do the same with your expenditures. Point is get involved, show an example of a model that works and
encourage it. For example, we are building 3 new parks in La Paz that will serve locals designed by local with a place to exercise and enjoy family
time.
Here is a recent interview about a group from Guadalajara called Indentitarians advocating for partnership between North Americans to improve overall
working and living conditions for all identities. http://www.redicecreations.com/radio3fourteen/2015/R314-1506...
[Edited on 6-30-2015 by gnukid]
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bajacamper
Nomad
Posts: 113
Registered: 2-21-2009
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Hiked up the hill at San Ysidro today into Mexico, passport, sentri and passport cards in hand. Two ladies inside the area you pass through to be
checked. Neither looked up. No questions asked. Driving? Quien sabe1
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
Take a guess, what percentage of the peninsula's economy is based upon Americans walking and driving across the border?
I'd guess 1/2 of one percent. Just a guess.
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With you on that, some here pat themselves on the back, thinking their 3 day camping trip to San Felipe, purchasing
nada in Baja, maybe 1 fish taco. Almost all of Mex tourism
is the fly down resorts, not someone tenting on a free beach
pretending to be contributing to the local Baja economy
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daveB
Nomad
Posts: 244
Registered: 11-6-2003
Location: B.C. Canada
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Mood: wondering about Nomads!
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Most any government will encourage tourist travel within its country, even to go so far as placing some minor penalties on travel for their
countrymen. Canadians visit Mexico a lot, about a million visits per year I once heard, from a country of only 34 million. About three years ago
Mexico became disgusted with Canada when Canada placed a visa requirement on visits by Mexicans. We still have a special travel arrangement to their
country, which equates with those for Americans.
Traveling internationally has long been done on the passport of your country. Now it is demanded by international air and sea travel between most
jurisdictions. In recent years land travel in Europe - which for a time had the most stringent regulations - has evolved to become more open at border
crossings. About the same time the USA instituted its passport regulations we use today. As Canadians, to travel to and through America, we need a
passport. Even so, as a traveler within America we are told we must carry it with us at all times. Even if traveling with a Nexis pass card and by
car, everyone in the car must have this card in order to make use of it to the fullest while crossing into USA.
As a person who goes to considerable lengths to protect my passport, where it mostly lies in a bank's safety deposit box, having to carry it through
land border crossings seemed like a problem but in retrospect once you have obtained one (and it's good that Canada's can now, finally, be valid for
10 years instead of just five) it is not a big deal to keep track of it.
It is self-evident that once the U.S. government instituted its border priorities, Canada and Mexico soon began to use similar regulations. Meanwhile
in Europe many people on international trips are able to sometimes leave their passports at home.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by rayfornario | The official at the pedestrian crossing told them that starting next month, they will need to show it or be turned back into the United States.
Has anyone else heard about this???? |
Walked across this AM. Same as always, no questions, no ID required. But I imagine soon Mexico will do away with its open border. Too many criminals
from the US just walking/driving in. Heck those prison escapees from the NY prison had plans to go there, all the way from northern NY! Donald Trump
may even try. They certainly don't want that.
[Edited on 7-1-2015 by SFandH]
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rayfornario
Nomad
Posts: 169
Registered: 2-23-2007
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
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I believe the check for passports will be only at the pedestrian lane.
The crossing right now is very inefficient due to the layout. If they do start checking for passports consistently, having the new crossing at
Virginia street will help. I heard it would be in November but work id proceeding slowly on it. It will also be another POE into the U.S as well as
Mexico.
Even a bad day in Baja is better then a good day somewhere else!
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by rayfornario | I believe the check for passports will be only at the pedestrian lane.
The crossing right now is very inefficient due to the layout. If they do start checking for passports consistently, having the new crossing at
Virginia street will help. I heard it would be in November but work id proceeding slowly on it. It will also be another POE into the U.S as well as
Mexico. |
Virginia street? Where's that? Is this in addition to the current pedestrian crossing?
[Edited on 7-2-2015 by SFandH]
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by rayfornario | I believe the check for passports will be only at the pedestrian lane.
The crossing right now is very inefficient due to the layout. If they do start checking for passports consistently, having the new crossing at
Virginia street will help. I heard it would be in November but work id proceeding slowly on it. It will also be another POE into the U.S as well as
Mexico. |
Virginia street? Where's that? Is this in addition to the current pedestrian crossing?
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Found the info. New pedestrian crossing on the west side in addition to the current east side crossing. This is good for us border walkers.
link to pdf file
[Edited on 7-2-2015 by SFandH]
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
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Location: OC So Cal
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For a while, there has been a fmm of sorts, strictly for entering Baja by boat for fishing, the Coronado Isles, up to 12 from shore,
don't know how far so. this is in effect, maybe Ensenada. Each
time one fishes in Mex waters, private boat or sportfishing
landing one must get this Marine fmm, good for one entry,
if going 2 days later must get another. Available online, recently
it requires a passport/ passcard to get this permit. Sounds very
much like the PROPOSED fee for peds. Wouldn't be the first time
Mex shoots itself on the foot
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rayfornario
Nomad
Posts: 169
Registered: 2-23-2007
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by rayfornario | I believe the check for passports will be only at the pedestrian lane.
The crossing right now is very inefficient due to the layout. If they do start checking for passports consistently, having the new crossing at
Virginia street will help. I heard it would be in November but work id proceeding slowly on it. It will also be another POE into the U.S as well as
Mexico. |
Virginia street? Where's that? Is this in addition to the current pedestrian crossing?
[Edited on 7-2-2015 by SFandH] |
It is by the outlet centers by the big Mexican flag, and should be open soon. They are in the process of constructing it right now and it can't come soon enough. The one by the Trolley tracks is a very
inefficient way to get to people into the country.
Even a bad day in Baja is better then a good day somewhere else!
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rayfornario
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Posts: 169
Registered: 2-23-2007
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
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They had this in the plans for years. their will be a pedestrian crosswalk to get to it. It will be both entry and exit!
Even a bad day in Baja is better then a good day somewhere else!
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bajasusan/a
Junior Nomad
Posts: 96
Registered: 6-23-2015
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I have friends driving via san ysidro in august, and the two teenagers have driver licenses but no passports. they will be fine coming in, but does
anyone know if passports are required to re-enter, or just what people usually show?
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