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RocketJSquirrel
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Venice is also sinking (and tilting) due to subsidence.
https://www.livescience.com/19195-venice-sinking-slowly.html
From the article:
The patches of land in Venice's lagoon (117 islands in all) are also sinking, with northern sections of the lagoon dropping at a rate of 2 to 3 mm
(0.08 to 0.12 inches) per year, and the southern lagoon subsiding at 3 to 4 mm (0.12 to 0.16 inches) per year.
Rick Steves in his guide book says 9" in the last 100 years. Maybe an average overall. Not sure where he got his data.
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Salsa
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The article I read said it was a Tide problem.
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David K
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Too bad there isn't a palm tree in Venice! LOL
Full and New moons plus seasonal variations and weather conditions explain extra high tides. That Venice is still normally above the sea after 500
years+ built on lagoon is amazing!
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John Harper
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Quote: Originally posted by RocketJSquirrel  | Venice is also sinking (and tilting) due to subsidence.
https://www.livescience.com/19195-venice-sinking-slowly.html
From the article:
The patches of land in Venice's lagoon (117 islands in all) are also sinking, with northern sections of the lagoon dropping at a rate of 2 to 3 mm
(0.08 to 0.12 inches) per year, and the southern lagoon subsiding at 3 to 4 mm (0.12 to 0.16 inches) per year.
Rick Steves in his guide book says 9" in the last 100 years. Maybe an average overall. Not sure where he got his data. |
I read that too. I wonder if they adjusted the tide record for land subsidence.
John
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4x4abc
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Sculpture in Berlin - Politicians discussing climate change
Harald Pietschmann
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pauldavidmena
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There are no palm trees in Antarctica either, but as this study by a work colleague suggests, the shrinking of the polar ice cap could spell extinction for the emperor penguin. And while the article
doesn't ask this question, doesn't all of the water from the melted ice have to go somewhere?
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4x4abc
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Palm Trees or Science
For our members who read and can follow arguments
no, the story has no pictures
https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/06/06/global-warming-isnt...
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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I am guessing since I include the El Coyote Palm Tree as one of MANY benchmarks proving that there is no hyper rise in sea level the past 60 years (as
there should be by all the panic promoted by media), I am okay to respond to this thread?
From your link:
To put this another way, when you claim that virtually all of the world’s climatologists are wrong and the earth is actually warming naturally,
you have just placed the burden of proof on you to provide evidence for that claim. In other words, simply citing previous warming events does not
prove that the current warming is natural. You have to actually provide evidence for a natural cause of the current warming, but (as I’ll explain
shortly) no such mechanism exists.
Let's stop right there... I made no argument the world is warming naturally or unnaturally. In fact, I believe we are in a cooling trend the past few
years and the long term forecast is not looking like global warming. This is why they changed the name from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" which
is hysterical since the climate has ALWAYS changed (with or without human activity).
My contribution to the science here is simply that I offer proof (thanks to photos taken 40-60 or more years ago and personal observation) that the
sea is not rising dramatically enough (if at all) to warrant the hysteria. I contend the media and special interests are using false hysteria to gain
more control, more funding, and more passion for their dreamed up ideas.
I also have been contending that what sea-level change does happen is simply as natural as all other changes in Nature and man cannot reverse what
Nature intends.
Science, true science, is the continued collection of data. The longer we collect, the more we will know. Saying that science ended at some point with
some consensus of scientists claiming something to be settled is ridiculous.
[Edited on 11-17-2019 by David K]
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Marc
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What David said.
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chuckie
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A bit heavy going, but makes a lot of sense....I read it 3 times....One of the most telling statements is in about the 3rd paragraph..It says,in sum,
"if you believe a (or all) climatologists are wrong, then the burden of proof to prove that is on you" That will stop most of the naysayers dead in
their tracks....Anyhow good read...Thanks...I am going to stick with the theory that Global warming is being caused by an overly large pumpkin crop in
Sudan....Thanks
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | I
Let's stop right there... I made no argument the world is warming naturally or unnaturally. In fact, I believe we are in a cooling trend the past few
years and the long term forecast is not looking like global warming. |
OK David - Time to put up or shut up - don't be saying "in fact"
when it is nothing more than your ill-informed opinion. Facts are things that are proven, measurable, confirmed - not baseless vaporware fueling
wild conspiracy theories where lack of proof, fact, and evidence is held out as proof of the conspiracy!
and here's your chance David - WHERE is your evidence that we are in a cooling trend for the last few years? any reference with real uncherry picked
data? anything? And who's Long Term forecast are you citing? please post your references!
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | This is why they changed the name from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" which is hysterical since the climate has ALWAYS changed (with or without
human activity). |
https://skepticalscience.com/climate-change-global-warming.h...
you have had this explained to you dozens of times - because you refuse to listen doesn't make it go away David, it makes you willfully ignorant!
| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
My contribution to the science here is simply that I offer proof (thanks to photos taken 40-60 or more years ago and personal observation) that the
sea is not rising dramatically enough (if at all) to warrant the hysteria. I contend the media and special interests are using false hysteria to gain
more control, more funding, and more passion for their dreamed up ideas.
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David - you have never made any contribution to science in your life . you are anti-science as your beliefs in flat earrth, young earth and no
climate change clearly demonstrate.
you are an enemy of science, you pretending to care about science or "contribute" is disgusting and an insult to those who actually do science.
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I also have been contending that what sea-level change does happen is simply as natural as all other changes in Nature and man cannot reverse what
Nature intends. |
This has been addressed here many times, completely debunked. Your lack of understanding of rates of change and Feedback loops is well documented
here. instead of you educating yourself on those important points, you have chosen to ignore them - why David? is it because you Know that it
completely invalidates any of your uneducated conspiracy theory spouting here! Burying your head in the sand does not make the truth go away David -
it makes you look foolish for being Willfully ignorant.
| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
Science, true science, is the continued collection of data. The longer we collect, the more we will know. Saying that science ended at some point with
some consensus of scientists claiming something to be settled is ridiculous.
[Edited on 11-17-2019 by David K] |
BWaHAHAHAHAAAA ! wow - the only time you stop shooting yourself in the foot is when you are reloading David!
Guess what David - scientists continue to collect data on this - literally thousands of new data points every day. And we have been collecting the
data we use to understand and confirm anthropogenic climate change for over 100 years, and the data themselves date back to millions of years old.
See David, we don 't collect data and throw it in a drawer - we analyze it - we use it to understand the world. we use it to build and verify
models, we use it to learn more every day.
and what my 100 years of data - with millions and millions and millions of data points say is - you are completely ignorant if you think your tree
is actually Data!
(and you know why David - so deal with it!)
You choose to be willfully ignorant David - that's your choice - but that doesn't change facts and information - those keep coming every day - and
they clearly point out to any and everyone willing to look at data and science with an open mind that we have anthropogenic climate change in
progress, sea levels are rising and feedback loops and accelerating rates of change are issues that we have to deal with.
Call yourself a mapmaker David, I have no problem with that - but you start spouting about science, - that's laughable David,
[Edited on 11-17-2019 by caj13]
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AKgringo
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How much CO2 is too much?
Dinosaurs like me don't like change, and I wish there was far less population and industry on this planet, but the safe bet is that it is going to get
worse before it gets better!
But how much Co2 is there now? Pre-industrial Earth had a reported level of 0.028%. By 2019 atmospheric Co2 has climbed to 0.041%!
What will be the effect if the level climbs another one hundredth of one percent? (0.051%)
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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HeyMulegeScott
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General Baja Discussion = Let's troll David K on climate change
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Lee
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I contend the media and special interests are using false hysteria to gain more control, more funding, and more passion for their dreamed up ideas.
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LOL?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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David K
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Seriously, right?? LOL
All I ask is you Baja travelers to show me when the sea really is higher than 50 years ago. I live, camp, and travel along the sea and it is not
higher.... Yet! That's what the palm tree, runway at Alfonsina's, hot springs at Puertecitos, lagoons and salt flats, my home street in Del Mar, etc.
all show us... the sea is still where it has been. Wake me up when it really is higher. Then my answer will be "finally!"
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motoged
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David....will you EVER wake up?
Don't believe everything you think....
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
Seriously, right?? LOL
All I ask is you Baja travelers to show me when the sea really is higher than 50 years ago. I live, camp, and travel along the sea and it is not
higher.... Yet! That's what the palm tree, runway at Alfonsina's, hot springs at Puertecitos, lagoons and salt flats, my home street in Del Mar, etc.
all show us... the sea is still where it has been. Wake me up when it really is higher. Then my answer will be "finally!" |
You understand the globe is actually that - right? the earth is not flat? and do you know there are other places on earth other than Baja and
southern California?
and you do know that sea level is higher - the data are out there - easily available - google is your friend - (well alright, in this case, your
enemy)
rate of change
Feedback Loops
actual real data
your ignoring these things don't change them - it simply illustrates your continued willfull ignorance!
You just keep on living in your flat earth that is only 6000 years old world.
Ignorance isn't bliss David
Its a really bad place to exist - particularly when you are choosing to remain in that state!
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Glidergeek
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the shrinking of the polar ice cap could spell extinction for the emperor penguin.
Damnit I'll have to start eating pork again.
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amigobaja
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These hide tides and flooding happens so often in Venice that all the homes and stores have metal or plastic (for lack of a better word) plugs that
they put into their door jams to keep the water out. Most of them are low enough that they leave their doors open and you step over them to enter. The
city has thousands of metal walk ways that they put 4X8 sheets of plywood on to make walk ways. When I was there 12 years ago at that time they had
record tides and all the plywood floated away. We got stuck (or drunk) in a bar about a mile from our hotel and had to walk through three to four feet
of water to get back to our hotel.
That night the water came over the door dams and flooded inside most peoples places and all the restaurants around us seemed to have their kitchens in
lower levels so they were all closed.You should have heard all the gordito tourist complaining about having to miss a meal plus the cities sewer
system was not functioning and raw sewage was everywhere.
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DaliDali
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How is it that water from the polar ice cap melt, can make its way deep into the Mediterranean Sea, after
squeezing by the Straits of Gibraltar, and into the head of the Adriatic Sea, yet avoid the Sea of Cortez?....
Here all along, I was sure water sought out its own level?
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