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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cajhawk
... If LB ends up using only desal water at some point, than the water issue is moot as well. FONATUR is and has been responsible for the development
of Nopolo from its inception and budgeted funds to expand when needed. Loreto is not paying for any additional sewage impact; it is being paid for by
FONATUR solely.
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The Loreto Bay development will result in thousands of new residents who will live outside the development. In fact, several thousand have already
shown up despite the completion of only a handful of units. These people will need water, as will those of us already in Loreto. For Loreto Bay to
provide its own water supply for its small Nopolo population does not, from our point of view, promise to make the water issue "moot." We are not
looking forward to a more expensive source of water, assuming any significant suply of desal water becomes available outside Nopolo. And as I've
stated before, at least some interests in the water issue will oppose the unilateral construction of desal plants by private developers.
As for sewage, I don't know if Fonatur is hooking Nopolo up to the Loreto sewer system. They are, however, building a facility near the LB nursery. I
am not aware of any commitment by Fonatur to provide assitance to Loreto to mitigate the coming demands of tens of thousands of new residents and the
demands they will make on the Loreto system.
And, as far as the street situation in Loreto goes, Loreto Bay is not responsible for the poor state of the repairs underway. But I think those
repairs provide an indication as to how well we can expect the municipality to adapt and grow with the large demands in infrastructure that are on the
way.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cajhawk
Affordable housing has been addressed numerous times. Guess what? Workers don't want to move to Loreto full time with their families! Aunts, uncles,
cousins and extended family are in other areas 'back home' and the idea has not caught on. Houses were to be built much like in the US under the FMHA
programs in rural America, where a percentage of income is calculated. Land was optioned and than not purchased as there were not enough who wanted to
participate. LB had an affordable housing director who worked for Habitat for Humanity on a high level. You can't force people to uproot and LB found
that out. Their sales pitch would sound much better if the affordable housing was built, so it isn't them that is the problem in this instance.
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I don't know of any place in Mexico that has developed a tourist economy that hasn't had lots of
people migrate to the area. If you want examples, just look at the Caribbean coast or the Pacific coast. How do you know that none of the workers
want to stay? How do you know that support workers won't migrate? I don't think affordable housing would mean anything to the sales pitch...but, it
sure is cheaper not to provide it.
[Edited on 9-26-2007 by elizabeth]
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cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
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I know that strong efforts have been made to provide affordable houses for workers. I also know that contractors responsible for worker housing gave
workers an option for a small increase in their daily cost to upgrade housing. It was refused almost unanimously. Once again, I'm pointing out the
areas that LB deserves at least some credit. The sales pitch is very much about trying to make Loretanos and those in Nopolo more of a community. This
is appealing to wealthier gringos that DON"T want to be the provincial American like in Cabo. They don't want the Giggling Marlin or Hard Rock, but
want local restaurants with a Mexican flavor (like Mitas, my favorite).
Of course if Loreto Bay goes belly up you can always count on seeing high rises on the beach (like FONATURs original plan). Loreto Bay has issues, but
all of Loreto's issues are not Loreto Bay.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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cajhawk
Newbie
Posts: 24
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
Member Is Online
posted on 9-25-2007 at 09:17 PM
LOL; I'm checking it out to promote it to customers in U.S. If it meets criteria of clean title, developer financing, acceptable location and
quality of contruction I will do so. If not, I won't.
cajhawk, the above is from your "San Felipe Drive" thread, and refers to a development you are planning to visit down there. So you've been pretty
busy looking for alternative properties to push to US clients. There is a world of difference between those of us who have found a place we love in
baja and bought on our own initiative, and those who come in herds, following some promoter, with little or no interest in the life and culture there
as it was before they came. It is those followers you hope to bring who have a negative impact on the environment, the economy, and the customs of the
area. I can't help but think we'd all be better off if you would just stay home.
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capt. mike
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Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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like i have said many times, i would never buy a LB place. I like renting at palapaville. but nothing here said has convinced me that LB is now or
will be a "problem".
but the market will decide what works and won't. - not a bunch of pro/con erudites, and certainly not ones from this little old website that while a
fun place to check in and interact, is not a moving force for change nor accreditdation ultimately.
and Osprey......check your meds amigo, they might have expired.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
I just want to stir the pot and play devil's advocate: Maybe the mess with the streets in Loreto is a calculated gamble that many businesses WILL go
bankrupt; then these businesses can be bought up cheaply by the same developers and investors in Loreto Bay. It makes sense to me: get rid of the old
wood and the people that complain and fringe establishments that are not derectly enriching LB, make them go belly up, buy them up at liquidation
prices, and convert them to real businesses for the benefit of those that can afford box-condos for 400K+. I'm sure they are even plotting how to
evict all those poor Loretanos squatting on valuable ancestral property in the area. Why not? What good are these natives and marginal businesses to
the invading horde of rich gringos? |
Amir, many Loretanos are thinking along these lines. When LB first started bringing in folks for their sales events, they would let them rome the
streets of town to shop and look around. But that stopped after a few months and lost sales because those people were checking out real estate
outside Loreto Bay and the prices were oh so much better and you get much more for your investment. So they have coralled the potential buyers during
the entire event and they only let them loose when there´s a sales rep with them to hold their hands during dinners in town but they are not let loose
like before. Many of the business owners think that now LB has a valid excuse for not letting the potential buyers into town, the town is a mess and
a health hazard. Businesses who aren´t willing to jack up their prices in order to accommodate the large comissions they require and then wait over
two months to be paid are not welcome to work with them. I apologize for also thinking this way but its hard not to when you have to make a living
and everything around you prevents you from being able to do it. However with this said I believe the town has its own unique charm of being a real
authentic Mexican Village and not like the disneylandia to the south of us. By doing a good job, charging fair prices, treating employees fairly and
offering a relaxing beautiful destination the businesses of the town of Loreto will persevere, flights or no flights we´ve done it before we re
survivors, Loreto Bay or no Loreto Bay we will continue to help folks from up north unwind and enjoy this peaceful place.
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cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
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Before you cast me in the role of a shill, I have been in real estate for 20 years in new home development. I chose to start working in Baja because I
enjoy it. I'm sorry if my choice of profession isn't considered honorable by some on the board. I represent two or three quality developments in Baja
and help them sell and market.
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cajhawk
Before you cast me in the role of a shill, I have been in real estate for 20 years in new home development. I chose to start working in Baja because I
enjoy it. I'm sorry if my choice of profession isn't considered honorable by some on the board. I represent two or three quality developments in Baja
and help them sell and market. |
Ca$hhawk:
The profession is honorable. Some people in the profession are not. 
Vague statements like "I represent two or three quality developers..."; don't you know if you represent two OR three developers? 
Your words in this thread make me doubt your motives and your integrity.
[Edited on 9-26-2007 by amir]
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
... I apologize for also thinking this way but its hard not to when you have to make a living and everything around you prevents you from being able
to do it. ... |
We became suspicious when they tore up the boat ramp just before the tournament. What other explanation could there be but SABOTAGE. It wouldn'd take
much mordida to purposefully cause the problems in Loreto right now, and one only has to follow the $$$ trail to figure out who is benefitting from
the mess...
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
... but the market will decide what works and won't. - not a bunch of pro/con erudites, and certainly not ones from this little old website that while
a fun place to check in and interact, is not a moving force for change nor accreditdation ultimately...
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How duplicitous and condescending!!! 
You have shown your true colors... 
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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cajhawk,
Since you're a real estate pro, give us your honest assessment of the value of the LB units. Haven't they recently upped the price quite a bit to
$400K+? That's a lot of money for a medium sized home with no yard, no A/C to get through sweltering summers, no real services, no parking, no
entertainment (theaters, baseball/football games, nightclubs, live music, libraries, etc.) and in essentially the middle of nowhere.
Given the housing bust in the US and the tightening of mortgages (does that include seconds?) what do you really think about the prices? Also, I'm
adjusting my investments for an upcoming recession in the US, but that's just my guess based upon the historical swings in the economy, the DOW now
approaching 14,000, the Euro becoming the currency of choice, and foreign investors becoming more and more reluctant to buy US debt instruments.
Here's a house on 1.5 acres in San Diego for $430,000. Now I know it's different but........it's the same price.
http://tinyurl.com/2secho
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
... but the market will decide what works and won't. - not a bunch of pro/con erudites, and certainly not ones from this little old website that while
a fun place to check in and interact, is not a moving force for change nor accreditdation ultimately...
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How duplicitous and condescending!!!
You have shown your true colors... |
Capt. Mike uses the market will decide argument a lot. To which I respond that using that simplified logic the market has determined that
methamphetamine is a good thing. Just because people buy something does not mean it's OK.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Interesting and sad coming into my shop next to a huge black and red flag. That means a strike is going on. The Plaza Loreto Hotel has been here
since 1990 built by two prominent Loreto citizens who have been very active throughout the years in tourism and promoting Loreto´s only industry.
They have since retired and handed over the management to a Cabo san Luqueño. I spoke with employees who are striking here at the hotel and they tell
me that they haven´t been being paid and its a direct result of the road work throughout town. another business that´s been around for quite some
time and almost across the street is Tio Lupe Restaurant. They have been very hard hit financially by this and are on the verge of closure. I dont
eat out often but I hope folks that come down will go and support Tio Lupe´s. It was once a partnership but the chef took over a few months ago. He
brought many of his family from the mainland and they´ve been doing a great job and working very hard at it. They also are a sponsor of one of the
veterano soccer teams. The cuarto altos restaruant is another who has taken a beating over this. Their food is great and the bartender Chuy is my
stepson, nice and fun guy like his dad.
while the "progress" is taking place half assed we are determined to survive it. We survived 9/11 when nobody came here for months and months and
after aero califonria outright canceled this destination. we survived aero mexico´s canceling this destination in the late 80´s . Loretanos have
been through a lot so I am not intimidated by a bunch of monied pansies who think that their loot and good looks will get them through everything down
here. Its not like that although it appears that way now it will equilibrate.
What goes up must come down, a law of gravity and economics. Loreto is a boomtown now but it will eventually bust. It´s not that a bust is a good
thing but an unhealthy boom is not a good thing either, there needs to be some middle ground. Water will be the big issue to prevent out of control
development on the baja peninsula. So will housing and workers rights, education and medical facilities.
watch for a furiously contested mayoral election in Loreto to come this february. that means lotsa anuncias everywhere and at all times of the day
and night.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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"Capt. Mike uses the market will decide argument a lot. To which I respond that using that simplified logic the market has determined that
methamphetamine is a good thing. Just because people buy something does not mean it's OK."
The market is impassionate and does not determine good or bad - free peoples do.
so what would you do......? .
set up controls on home buying and investment too? and then what else?
maybe you'd like to live with Chavez' thugs in Venezuela?
Free enterprise and capitalism form the basis upon which this country......that is the USA , was founded.
Market interference mechanisms do two things, cause shortages and raise prices - pure and simple, easy to prove based on the empirical data for every
time it has been tried.
Besides all that - it's Mexico - its their country - even with foreign investment capitalizing private development the mex gov't can and will decide
what works or doesn't for the citizenry.
LB is here like it or not. If you don't like it don't buy one. nothing you can do will make it disappear - and i'll say it MAY peter out one day if it
doesn't work as planned - well, that's business - comes with risks. The rewards from accepting risk might be profits. The downside might be losses.
And there could be social gains or losses - part of the equation. The alternative, totally planned economies, i find about as acceptable as jail.
i'll take liberty everytime. And the freedom to make decisions for myself.
I really don't understand all the expats complaining about this project when as far as i can tell no one b-tching has lost any money yet as a direct
result of buying a home there.
But as i said before - not my business, i am not supportive of it as a buyer - i never would live in a condo controlled community. My music and
parties are way too loud
this is boring now........
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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rhintransit
Super Nomad
Posts: 1588
Registered: 9-4-2006
Location: Loreto
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maybe nobody's lost money yet as Capt Mike says. ?quien sabe? but a whole lot of people have made a hell of a lot selling fantasies to the gullible
and uninformed. that's the free enterprise mortgage brokers and realtors defend.
reality\'s never been of much use out here...
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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Pam,
Check your U2U
Ed
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edinnopolo
Nomad
Posts: 138
Registered: 5-1-2005
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Mood: laid back
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Loreto Bay is here...like it or not.
Well. latest rumour, sounds legit, has it that they are done and Citigroup has taken over. The project is supposed to get done up to the units that have been
sold. True or notJust relaying this rumour
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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Capt Mike,
Did you ever hear of the California Coastal Commission? If free enterprise were left unchecked the whole coast line would be high rise condos. They
wouldn't have let LB be built because you have to supply a water plan for the next 20 years for development in CA and help provide the necessary
infrastructure. There are many examples where "free enterprise" is regulated in the US. Zoning restrictions, building codes, etc. etc. and innumerable
laws against "this and that" type of free enterprise. Do you have any more weak arguments I can shoot down in one sentence?
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Loreto Bay isn't the end of the world, just a pimple. They tell me the
desert climate will dry up pimples.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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no - i have no problem with having to go through a proper entitlement process. i have to do it all the time. Am doing it now for our latest project in
SE AZ.
and i didn't intend that free enterprize comes without some fair controls, just not dictatorial interference.
so - a Mexican Coastal commission, if it were involved and properly jurised, could i guess have shot it down long ago. Or approved it - there are
rules and regs for all their monitoring of development. They love their stamps........i'll receive about 6 of them between SD and Loreto manana...big
whoop.
don't ask me tho - i am not a mexican and don't live there. none of it is my concern. I have my own real battles to win and manage here in the USA. I
think more Americans should think about defending AMERICA against radical facists and worry less about what goes on in a recreational zone like
baja.
shoot down whatever you want amigo. i haven't the time to care one way or another. I am singing the Andy of Mayberry whistle now....
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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