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Ateo
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Just buy your gas......(edit) and move along......
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by ateo]
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BOLARNR
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Is it the same in the Southern Hemisphere?
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
true 3 liters wasn't part of the test....
only...
do you get more if you buy by liters instead of peso |
Yes, I know that... but just to see if the station in Mulege pumps a true 3 liters... Did it look like just over 3/4 of a gallon in your can? As
someone above sort of indicated... Buying 19 liters and seeing if you got close to 5 gallons in a 5 gallon can would be better for that kind of test.
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laventana
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RE:Santa Rosalia
I stopped there one time with my motorcycle. trying not to get ripped off I
took the gas nozzle from him to pump it myself at the last minute. so he had
reset the pump and was ready to pump gas. As I clicked it on before two
tablespoons of gas came out it read 3 liters. Since we pump gas in the USA
we know how to use pumps. I immediately began telling the attendant mucho
problemo. i said 3 litros , zero. and he acted like a grade a jerk. But I
would not back down, obviously he knew what it did. and when they just
laughed I began yelling policia akey and just got louder the more they laughed, till they stopped laughing. Only then did he reset the pump and I saw
how they
were doing it.
I am an engineer and have designed many input devices including membrane
switches and designed firmware and wrote firmware. He pressed another area of the pump not the green button area. This other area of the pump was
solid black with no indication of a button. But I could tell this the normal place to push because it was very dirty right
there.
Since I drive trucks with two tanks I certainly know when I get cheated, I
always let one go dry before using the other and have them fill the empty first.
there is no way to stop them from doing this. Same as the USA I have read that some operators put in a remote control from the station that they press
the button and it will cheat you. (I could design this in one day) this way the weights and measurement agency when they test a pump can be beat. I
have read on blogs other ways like put in new chips that cheat as it hits over 5 gallons because they are only tested to ??? 2 gallons and so on. I
can tell you there are so many ways to beat pumps by re-chipping them that there is not much we can do except boycott them once you know.
Some good advice I received from a person who owns a gas station in LaPaz, go to the stations where the taxi drivers fill up. but this does not stop
the remote device, but maybe here they do not have the technology.
also I have noticed when I get even on a full tank of gas about 10%
better mileage on USA gas than on the gas we buy here in Mexico. This is easy to check when you have two tanks, i almost always reset the trip meter
after filling a tank full. So could be a different blend of some kind.
I also heard of a gas station being caught somewhere very close to me and being shut down for a month or so for injecting air. I can only say I
know they were closed and this was the rumor. and I did test the empty tank after they re-opened and it was then accurate.
as I mentioned I drive a motorcycle too, and have noticed sometimes when I fill up at stations, because it is not fuel injected I have major
problems with idling. To the point the bike will not idle at a stop light. Generally I go buy some isopropyl alcohol and put in the tank and
it runs better. I have 6 carbs so I can tell very quickly when I get this baddish gas. when starting cold and I can not get out my gate without
stalling I know right away. Generally the smaller volume stations are the worst from my anecdotal experiences for the quality issues. fuel
injection with electronics overcomes this so it is not noticeable in my vehicles with 4 wheels.
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Ateo
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I have an option for all you black helicopter types: bring your own gas into Baja and boycott Pemex. 
But like laventana says, even the US stations have remote controlled cheating devices. so you're screwed either way. Sarcasm.
Can we get BajaCactus' take on the liters to pesos debate?
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by laventana
RE:Santa Rosalia
I stopped there one time with my motorcycle. trying not to get ripped off I
took the gas nozzle from him to pump it myself at the last minute. so he had
reset the pump and was ready to pump gas. As I clicked it on before two
tablespoons of gas came out it read 3 liters. Since we pump gas in the USA
we know how to use pumps. I immediately began telling the attendant mucho
problemo. i said 3 litros , zero. and he acted like a grade a jerk. But I
would not back down, obviously he knew what it did. and when they just
laughed I began yelling policia akey and just got louder the more they laughed, till they stopped laughing. Only then did he reset the pump and I saw
how they
were doing it.
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most importantly, did you check the cleanliness of the banos?
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laventana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
This is total crap. I'm a Underground Storage Tank System Operator and everything I know about these Dresser Wayne/Gilbarco pumps leads me to call
BS.
What I see in my line of work is the public is very distrusting of gas station owners. Everyone thinks the operator is trying to screw his/her
customers. Generally what I find is the general public knows jack about how these systems work. I've never met one operator who deliberately cheats
the customer and I deal with a lot of scumbags. They disable leak detection systems, illegally dispose of hazardous waste, and illegally reset vapor
recovery diagnostic systems, but Ive never seen anyone do something like this.
Pumps do go out of calibration from time to time - in both directions - but this whole liter vs. peso and gaining or losing gas is total BS. The
general public may think all you need is a special chip or software program to screw the public like this but I can tell you from experience I've
never seen anything like this.
Just my $.02. I'll be interested in seeing Bob and Susan's results mañana.
Oh and I know - this is Mexico, not the USA so don't even start. Let's see the results mañana. If I'm wrong I will apologize. 
[Edited on 11-30-2011 by ateo] |
Ok so you are a button pusher?? tech? or an engineer?
how would a mr black helicopter who is the expert in electronics and the industry, you explain this... found in 1 minute of goggling...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opADj9IlAqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8JfRd_O4W8&feature=relat...
http://www.sunjournal.com/state/story/1096879
They certainly are not going to discuss a felony with with you.... I can very quickly make a system at your place to rip people off. It would be
so simple..... it is obvious that these machines can be easily calibrated. so all I would do is take the guts from a second machine calibrate
it to steal and put it in via a relay switchable in parallel via remote control. you would not have a clue to what hit ya. and since as I noted
just one gas station in the USA alone in the cited report gained over $300k in a year.
http://www.sunjournal.com/state/story/1096879
| Quote: |
The problems at the southern Maine gas station were detailed in a Sept. 9 memo. It estimated that one station may have cost customers about $316,637
in overcharges in one year.
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ya right, an accountant or owner would not know this.... pure BS... i have some black helicopters to sell ya if you think an owner does not know
he has an extra 300K.
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by laventana]
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Ateo
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| Quote: | Ok so you are a button pusher?? tech? or an engineer?
how would a mr black helicopter who is the expert in electronics and the industry, you explain this... found in 1 minute of goggling...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opADj9IlAqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8JfRd_O4W8&feature=relat...
http://www.sunjournal.com/state/story/1096879
They certainly are not going to discuss a felony with with you.... I can very quickly make a system at your place to rip people off. It would be
so simple..... it is obvious that these machines can be easily calibrated. so all I would do is take the guts from a second machine calibrate
it to steal and put it in via a relay switchable in parallel via remote control. you would not have a clue to what hit ya. and since as I noted
just one gas station in the USA alone in the cited report gained over $300k in a year.
http://www.sunjournal.com/state/story/1096879
| Quote: |
The problems at the southern Maine gas station were detailed in a Sept. 9 memo. It estimated that one station may have cost customers about $316,637
in overcharges in one year.
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ya right, an accountant or owner would not know this.... pure BS... i have some black helicopters to sell ya if you think an owner does not know
he has an extra 300K.
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by laventana] |
I apologize for using the black helicopter reference - it made me sound like I was trying to insult people, and gave my post a negative tone. I was
amped up on coffee.
The videos you posted are what is called "meter creeping". This is part of the UST owners required daily inspection. This "meter creep" is usually
caused by a defective bladder inside the dispenser. When the cashier authorizes the pump this bladder expands. If there's a tear in the bladder it
will cause the meter to creep up and charge for gas that is not being dispensed. This is a no-no and a few of my stations have been fined for this in
the past. Usually it's discovered within a day and usually the meter only creeps $.01 to $.02, right at the beginning of the customers transaction.
I've never seen a meter creep like the ones in the videos.
As for the station in Maine, quote:
"State officials have declined to name the station because they say they don't believe the station tampered with the pumps or that its owners
willfully defrauded customers".
That says it all. Some of the other pumps were over dispensing, in the customers favor.
As for my customers not admitting willfully to a felony, I review their inventory reconciliation numbers every visit. Fuel deliveries vs fuel sales.
Should balance out within an EPA guideline that accounts for temperature correction as well as other factors. If there is an anomaly, there are two
outcomes, leaking underground storage tank, or out of calibration pump.
I don't doubt gasoline station fraud is out there, just not as much as people think, and especially not in the USA.
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by ateo]
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Bob and Susan
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ok ill do the test...give me an hour to post the results
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laventana
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thanks for clarifying the black helicopters, i did take it that way and did respond in kind so no hard feelings. back to the issues.
In the USA it seems very rare to me because I do have the two tanks and will almost always run one dry and fill it. So I have maybe noticed it a
handful of times in 10 years that I have had two tanks, 90k miles of driving in the US and 30 k in mexico.
I would have a hard time believing the Maine station did not know $300k of extra profit, and of course the regulators can not make such a assertion
without proof so it had to be written that way.
Here is another one, got caught putting in 140 altered chips.
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/oct/09/business/fi-30669
| Quote: |
Investigators found 140 altered chips in 12 stations throughout Los Angeles, Orange, San Bernardino and Kern counties. Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti
referred to the alleged scheme as a "high-tech innovation used to steal money from consumers who don't know they're victimized." The altered chip
would cause the pump to speed up its reading, giving the customer 7% to 25% less gasoline than indicated, officials said.
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here is another one that is far more dangerous not by the gas stations....in the USA... they do similar to ATMs around the world.
http://www.mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=4026
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comitan
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Just a note to people that have 2 gas tanks and run them dry the in tank fuel pumps are cooled by the fuel in the tank, if you run them dry you
shorten the life of the pump, this was told to me by a Mechanic.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Ateo
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Laventana: totally agree that something was not right with the Maine station. $300k should've been noticed if they were paying attention.
And thanks for the LA Times link. Interesting read.
Let me state again, fraud is out there. I'm just saying its a rare occurrence/doesn't happen as much as the consumer thinks, and is usually not
intentional. Like I said in one of my first posts on this subject, I know a dealer who was giving away thousands of dollars in free guess.
Now as far as Mexico I'm sure it happens more often. I just don't agree with the "buy liters instead of a set peso amount.". In the USA you can't
even authorize a pump by entering "10 gallons". You need a dollar amount! That's why the cashier will get a calculator out and multiply 10 gallons x
3.45 gallon so they can enter the total into the computer. Are we sure the Pemex guys aren't doing the same? Next time I go down I'll see if they
can even enter "10 gallons". See ya!
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laventana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Just a note to people that have 2 gas tanks and run them dry the in tank fuel pumps are cooled by the fuel in the tank, if you run them dry you
shorten the life of the pump, this was told to me by a Mechanic. |
I can not imagine people keeping
the car on long once they run out of gas for the in tank to have an issue but certainly worth noting and making sure, so thanks for the info.
older ford trucks are not in the tank types, the newer ones are. here is a great site for parts where you can make the determination and great
prices . http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php
I have about 300k miles on my truck and have been doing this since I bought it at 150k, again, not an in the tank version.. Also I have another
new old truck right now that is diesel and has 250k miles and I am about to replace the fuel pump for preventative maintenance. the fuel pump is
$24.95 and takes about 2 hours for a novice to replace. in tank pumps are about $60.00 on up from what I see.
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by laventana]
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by laventana]
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laventana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
Laventana: totally agree that something was not right with the Maine station. $300k should've been noticed if they were paying attention.
And thanks for the LA Times link. Interesting read.
Let me state again, fraud is out there. I'm just saying its a rare occurrence/doesn't happen as much as the consumer thinks, and is usually not
intentional. Like I said in one of my first posts on this subject, I know a dealer who was giving away thousands of dollars in free guess.
Now as far as Mexico I'm sure it happens more often. I just don't agree with the "buy liters instead of a set peso amount.". In the USA you can't
even authorize a pump by entering "10 gallons". You need a dollar amount! That's why the cashier will get a calculator out and multiply 10 gallons x
3.45 gallon so they can enter the total into the computer. Are we sure the Pemex guys aren't doing the same? Next time I go down I'll see if they
can even enter "10 gallons". See ya! |
from the programming theft standpoint I am on the same page with you on the liters and pesos issue..
but i step back and think there could be a valid reason if you are putting in a cheating chip. If weights and measurements only tests by pumping say
20 liters it may actually be correct. and if entering dollars or just fill to full could be a way to do skim. so I reverse my opinion on this one,
there could be something to it.. but one would need to find a station that is not accurate in the first place to test. and as many have already
pointed out without them knowing you are testing. and as a programmer I would only do it after say 7 gallons in a chip.
[Edited on 12-1-2011 by laventana]
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Bob and Susan
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my answer...it is what it is...
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
my answer...it is what it is...
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Bravo!!!
Another A+ 
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Ateo
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Bob and Susan, another great production. Thanks,
Jon
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Udo
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Superb demonstration, Bob y Susan!
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Bomberro
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We live in Los Barriles, for years the only gas station in town was owned by the owner of the large hotel in town. I started filling my 5 gallon gas
cans in 1994. They always filled at the five gallon mark to 21 liters. This did not change until Pemex required all of the stations to modernize and
install the new pumps. At about this time, another station was finally was built and of course they had accurtate pumps. I do not know of anyone that
goes to the old station out of spite, I fill always at the new. I personally showed the owner of the large hotel, my gas can and how it took 21
liters, he said he was really surprised....Well, when I could in the old days I would drive to La Ribera or Santiago and of course the gas cans filled
at 19 liters...The thing that has changed the most is of course the new pumps, we paid a surcharge of 10% for so many years, its the price of living
in paradise.
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Bob and Susan
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that was then and this is now...the answer...computers
the myth that you get screwed when you buy gas just isn't true any more
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