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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Thanks for this post Paulina, after I read it I googled Paleo, and as I am very interested in different forms of eating, I found what I read very
intriguing.
I have not delved to deep into the subject, just skimmed it a bit, but am assuming that honey is not included in this diet? What about salt? Cacao?
Coffee? What about teas? Only thing you eat is veges, fruit, nuts and meat, fish, poultry and eggs, correct?
Although I have not completly eliminated them from my diet, honey, salt, coffee, (although I did cut coffee out for 3 months this summer), minimal
whole grains, corn tortillas, soy, rice, oats and goat cheese & yogurt still play a small part in my diet.
On the other hand, I have pretty much cut out beef & pork, (have had 3 servings in the last 4 months), and eat minimal eggs as I find them
difficult to digest. Chicken, turkey and fish, I consume a few times a week. At least 70% of my diet is just veges and fruit, and I feel much better
for it.
Anyway, after what I read, I am considering the Paleo diet for a month when I go home to Baja, it would easier to do this at home as it is pretty much
how my daughter eats anyway and we share our main meal often. It would be interesting to see if I could digest meat if I don't consume grains and
dairy.
No way while I am in Oaxaca, although I am still pretty careful, (digestion issues have me on a short chain), I have stepped off my diet a bit I while
I am here; last chance at really good corn tortillas, and a few other goodies like at least one tlayuda with acento and tasajo. Hot chocolate with
pan de llema, I had my Chili in Nogada fix.
Anyway, as I like to eat so much, I always find it a very interesting subject.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulina
I went Paleo on May 1st and have lost 50lbs and have maintained that loss. It's not that difficult to do in Baja. Tacos Recreo in Maneadero is very
understanding of my new way of eating. They see me coming with my own bowl and fork and they fix me right up. Granted, its not grass fed beef, but
they do cut the grasa off for me. The guac is sin mayonesa. No beans as they are legumes. I got used to missing the tortillas as I don't miss the gut
bomb feeling afterwards. Man, my mouth is watering as I type.
Here's our Paleo scallops from last summer. Fresh from the sea that day, olive oil, cilantro and lime. (more drooling)
I'm working on our Paleo Thanksgiving list for Ensenada now.
P>*)))>{ |
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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Eli, check your u2u.
P>*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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In My Most Humble Opinion
Probably the most "healthful" thing a person can do is research your family tree and find out for certain what hereditary health problems are common
on one or both sides of your family. Diabetes, autoimmune diseases, cardiovascular diseases are passed on to far too many descendants to ignore. One
of the responsibilities of being a parent is to clearly (meaning without fail) educate adult children about the importance of knowing and
understanding pervasive hereditary disease in your family.
Do you know those questionnaires doctors have you fill out on your first appointment? They are looking for a whole host of family oriented health
problems that are hereditary. If seemingly "everyone" in your family tree had type 2 diabetes, it is crucial to not gain weight. Hypertension? Be
aware of it as you keep dumping loads of salt on a mashed potato. Even the incidence of Alzheimer's Disease seems to have deep roots in hereditary
passage. If I had used my intelligence better when I was younger I would NOT HAVE relied on doctors to keep me healthy. Too many MD's treat symptoms
and not causes.
Is a vegan diet "more healthy" than a "3-squares*" diet using organic pesticide free foods? I believe hereditary factors are the key. Some folks
(myself included thankfully) are cholesterol problem free. Others cannot look at a package of butter or flat of eggs without having their LDL soar to
high heaven. It is hereditary.
*A sensible diet, not a 32 oz T-Bone topped with eggs and french fries, and pie a-la-mode. A sensible diet includes lots of fruit and vegetables. If I
want sweet I turn to "Stevia" not sugar.
Many vegetarians choose that diet because the thought of eating meat is repulsive to them. But then all vegetarians are not alike. Some even go so far
as to abhor the very thought of drinking milk. Maybe their infant formula was warmed soy milk with a nipple.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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windgrrl
Super Nomad
Posts: 1329
Registered: 9-2-2006
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Became a vegetarian after touring a state of the art slaughterhouse with humane killing procedures. My impression was that the place was not very
humane for man or beast. Those curious about the dynamics of food supply my find interesting reading in "Diet for a Small Planet" and "Fast Food
Nation."
When the way comes to an end, then change. Having changed, you pass through.
~ I-Ching
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luv2fish
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Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by windgrrl
Became a vegetarian after touring a state of the art slaughterhouse with humane killing procedures. My impression was that the place was not very
humane for man or beast. Those curious about the dynamics of food supply my find interesting reading in "Diet for a Small Planet" and "Fast Food
Nation." |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMhuXdS0e3I
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by luv2fish]
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Out of curiosity, por favor windgrrl, I am wondering why you would go tour a slaughterhouse? Surely it was not for curiosity¿?¿?
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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out of curiosity, how do you type an upside down question mark?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
out of curiosity, how do you type an upside down question mark? |
I bought a new computer from Office Depot in Ensenada and it came with a Mexican keyboard and had tildes...ñ...and everything else.
I'm sure you can find one in ALT CODES. Google that if necessary.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Some even go so far as to abhor the very thought of drinking milk. Maybe their infant formula was warmed soy milk with a nipple.
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From a vegan's point of view milk is probably the worst when considering animal rights. First the cows are raped, usually by a machine, to make them
pregnant. Then they are milked endlessly by another machine. They are also fed all sorts of chemicals to boost milk production. Antibiotics too
because the constant milking very often causes infections. There are federal limits for the amount of puss milk can contain. It all does.
When the cows give birth their babies are taken from them. They wail for days when this happens, as any mother would. A friend of mine visited a dairy
farm in Michigan and listened to the crys. He said it was horrible and heartbreaking.
Then when the milk production stops they are raped again and the cycle repeats. When they get too old after years of this torture they are killed and
eaten.
And no other animal drinks milk after it is weaned. It is totally unnecessary.
The dairy industry is brutal.
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by SFandH]
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windgrrl
Super Nomad
Posts: 1329
Registered: 9-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Out of curiosity, por favor windgrrl, I am wondering why you would go tour a slaughterhouse? Surely it was not for curiosity¿?¿?
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Went twice. First was in the 70s for our Grade 8 Ag class a trip to a small local plant. Got hit in the head with a bone chip from the skull of the
next cow in the chute that was plugged by a pistol. It looked like hard work, then. My relative was a "shrouder".
Next time was in the 90s for college - a community health experience with an occupational health nurse at a large multi-national plant. She had worked
very hard to reduce employee injury. The kill floor was pretty much the same as the first, except it look more like the loading bay from Aliens.
Cattle went up 2 stories on a converor belt, automatic air gun to the head, the hide is whipped off by some kind of rolling winch, then
electrification of the carcass and off to the folks with electric knives flying through the room on hydraulic platforms. 10,000 workers/year
recruited from around the world. Takes about 3 months to strip a person's spirit away at 4,700 cattle per day. The beef is then distributed
world-wide.
It's interesting to see how stuff we eat gets from the field to the shelf.
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by windgrrl]
When the way comes to an end, then change. Having changed, you pass through.
~ I-Ching
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wiltonh
Nomad
Posts: 302
Registered: 2-2-2007
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My father who was a doctor was interviewing a patient some years ago. The guy volunteered that he was a vegetarian. My dad asked why? His answer
was, "I am a meat plant inspector".
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Myself, one too many trips down I-5 past the Harris Ranch feed lot and slaughterhouse, really reduced my beef (all kinds of other meat as well)
intake. I do like the byproduct of hamburger and steak creation on my garden though! The last time I had cantaloupe grow this fast, I end up with 8
pound melons that a person could smell from a hundred feet away as they ripened.
I have been feeding (possibly a family of) chipmunks from a small bag of Purina hi-protein dog food. They are no longer scrawny and scroungy looking.
I just hope I am not promulgating population explosion 101.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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McRV6A
Newbie
Posts: 18
Registered: 11-5-2010
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I have been a vegan for over 20 years, although not a good one. During this time I have eaten fish & chicken. I love fish. I have also eaten too
much processed foods. Within the last year I have lost 30 pounds bringing my weight down to 165. At 6ft tall I have now quit taking my statin drug as
my cholesterol is down to 127. The reason I became a vegan is because my younger brother died of a heart attack at age 42, my dad at 52, my mother at
69, and my sister had a quadruple heart bypass at 65. So I decided to go another route and have exercised either running on a treadmill or riding my
bike everyday for the past 40 years. I have educated myself in nutrition by reading the following books by experts in the field of nutrition.
The China Study--------- Dr Colin Campbell
Reversing heart disease--- Dr Dean Ornish
Prevent & reverse Heart disease Dr Caldwell Esselstyn
Breaking the food seduction Dr Neal Barnard
The starch solution Dr John McDougall
Eat to live Dr Joel Fuhrman
These are only a few of the important titles. Also below are some good movies to watch many of which are on youtube
Forks over knives
Eating
Fat sick & nearly dead
Simply raw
Supercharge me
Brendan Brazier Tri-athlete
Make yourself Heart attack proof
The last heart attack (about Clinton)
Processed People
Food Inc.
The world according to Monsanto.
Earthlings
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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The China Study is relatively new and being widely read. It's probably one of the bigger reasons for the increase in the popularity of
plant-based diets.
From the author:
"I don’t use the word “vegan” or “vegetarian.” I don’t like those words. People who chose to eat that way chose to because of ideological reasons. I
don’t want to denigrate their reasons for doing so, but I want people to talk about plant-based nutrition and to think about these ideas in a very
empirical scientific sense, and not with an ideological bent to it.
The idea is that we should be consuming whole foods. We should not be relying on the idea that genes are determinants of our health. We should not be
relying on the idea that nutrient supplementation is the way to get nutrition, because it’s not. I’m talking about whole, plant-based foods. The
effect it produces is broad for treatment and prevention of a wide variety of ailments, from cancer to heart disease to diabetes."
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/nutrition-advice-fr...
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by SFandH]
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Some even go so far as to abhor the very thought of drinking milk. Maybe their infant formula was warmed soy milk with a nipple.
|
From a vegan's point of view milk is probably the worst when considering animal rights. First the cows are raped, usually by a machine, to make them
pregnant. Then they are milked endlessly by another machine. They are also fed all sorts of chemicals to boost milk production. Antibiotics too
because the constant milking very often causes infections. There are federal limits for the amount of puss milk can contain. It all does.
When the cows give birth their babies are taken from them. They wail for days when this happens, as any mother would. A friend of mine visited a dairy
farm in Michigan and listened to the crys. He said it was horrible and heartbreaking.
Then when the milk production stops they are raped again and the cycle repeats. When they get too old after years of this torture they are killed and
eaten.
And no other animal drinks milk after it is weaned. It is totally unnecessary.
The dairy industry is brutal.
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by SFandH] |
A little anthropomorphism here?
I understand your ethical stance, and I know I get enough eye rolling for my desire to maintain an ethical diet to know you probably get a lot more,
but let's keep it real and factual.
Artificial insemination is not rape. By calling it that you belittle the experiences of real human women who have suffered from horrifying rapes.
While some dairy ranches may be run as you say, not all are. I am familiar with dairy ranches that are run organically and humanely. Cows are not
milked endlessly. They spend a good part of their time grazing on pasture. They are not given hormones, chemicals, gmo feeds, animal byproduct feed,
or routine antibiotics. The pasture that they graze and the silage that they eat is grown without herbicides, pesticides or artificial fertilizers.
They have stalls with adequate bedding for comfort in inclement weather that allow them sufficient space for comfort.
I suggest you check out dairy ranches like the Strauss Family Creamery in Marin County. There are others, smaller, not so famous, that don't have web
sites but raise their animals in the same fashion.
I realize, that for you, anything short of no animal use is not sufficient, but there are others of us who I believe have just as valid an ethical
position who try to eat only from farmers and ranches who respect their animals, so at least post factual information.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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LET THERE BE NO COW RAPING!
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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what do think this is a joke!
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Some even go so far as to abhor the very thought of drinking milk. Maybe their infant formula was warmed soy milk with a nipple.
|
From a vegan's point of view milk is probably the worst when considering animal rights. First the cows are raped, usually by a machine, to make them
pregnant. Then they are milked endlessly by another machine. They are also fed all sorts of chemicals to boost milk production. Antibiotics too
because the constant milking very often causes infections. There are federal limits for the amount of puss milk can contain. It all does.
When the cows give birth their babies are taken from them. They wail for days when this happens, as any mother would. A friend of mine visited a dairy
farm in Michigan and listened to the crys. He said it was horrible and heartbreaking.
Then when the milk production stops they are raped again and the cycle repeats. When they get too old after years of this torture they are killed and
eaten.
And no other animal drinks milk after it is weaned. It is totally unnecessary.
The dairy industry is brutal.
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by SFandH] |
A little anthropomorphism here?
I understand your ethical stance, and I know I get enough eye rolling for my desire to maintain an ethical diet to know you probably get a lot more,
but let's keep it real and factual.
Artificial insemination is not rape. By calling it that you belittle the experiences of real human women who have suffered from horrifying rapes.
While some dairy ranches may be run as you say, not all are. I am familiar with dairy ranches that are run organically and humanely. Cows are not
milked endlessly. They spend a good part of their time grazing on pasture. They are not given hormones, chemicals, gmo feeds, animal byproduct feed,
or routine antibiotics. The pasture that they graze and the silage that they eat is grown without herbicides, pesticides or artificial fertilizers.
They have stalls with adequate bedding for comfort in inclement weather that allow them sufficient space for comfort.
I suggest you check out dairy ranches like the Strauss Family Creamery in Marin County. There are others, smaller, not so famous, that don't have web
sites but raise their animals in the same fashion.
I realize, that for you, anything short of no animal use is not sufficient, but there are others of us who I believe have just as valid an ethical
position who try to eat only from farmers and ranches who respect their animals, so at least post factual information. |
The organic dairy industry is 6% of the total US dairy industry (1). I'll accept that it does try to be more humane. But by doing so even it
acknowledges the inhumanity of 94% the industry, about which everything I said is true. And even the organic industry is killing animals. I think that
is immoral and inhumane.
Therefore I also think the animal welfare movement, followed by organic dairy farmers is misguided. Sort of like putting lipstick on a pig. It doesn't
work for me. But it certainly is a step in the right direction. A tepid thanks to those folks.
(1) http://www.organicnewsroom.com/2011/04/us_organic_industry_v...
[Edited on 9-24-2012 by SFandH]
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Lindalou
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 1-12-2004
Location: Punta Banda Baja
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Some even go so far as to abhor the very thought of drinking milk. Maybe their infant formula was warmed soy milk with a nipple.
|
From a vegan's point of view milk is probably the worst when considering animal rights. First the cows are raped, usually by a machine, to make them
pregnant. Then they are milked endlessly by another machine. They are also fed all sorts of chemicals to boost milk production. Antibiotics too
because the constant milking very often causes infections. There are federal limits for the amount of puss milk can contain. It all does.
When the cows give birth their babies are taken from them. They wail for days when this happens, as any mother would. A friend of mine visited a dairy
farm in Michigan and listened to the crys. He said it was horrible and heartbreaking.
Then when the milk production stops they are raped again and the cycle repeats. When they get too old after years of this torture they are killed and
eaten.
And no other animal drinks milk after it is weaned. It is totally unnecessary.
The dairy industry is brutal.
[Edited on 9-23-2012 by SFandH] |
A little anthropomorphism here?
I understand your ethical stance, and I know I get enough eye rolling for my desire to maintain an ethical diet to know you probably get a lot more,
but let's keep it real and factual.
Artificial insemination is not rape. By calling it that you belittle the experiences of real human women who have suffered from horrifying rapes.
While some dairy ranches may be run as you say, not all are. I am familiar with dairy ranches that are run organically and humanely. Cows are not
milked endlessly. They spend a good part of their time grazing on pasture. They are not given hormones, chemicals, gmo feeds, animal byproduct feed,
or routine antibiotics. The pasture that they graze and the silage that they eat is grown without herbicides, pesticides or artificial fertilizers.
They have stalls with adequate bedding for comfort in inclement weather that allow them sufficient space for comfort.
I suggest you check out dairy ranches like the Strauss Family Creamery in Marin County. There are others, smaller, not so famous, that don't have web
sites but raise their animals in the same fashion.
I realize, that for you, anything short of no animal use is not sufficient, but there are others of us who I believe have just as valid an ethical
position who try to eat only from farmers and ranches who respect their animals, so at least post factual information. |
Thank you for a breath of fresh air on this subject. There are always 2 sides to every story, the meat eaters and the fanatics
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Ever see what a calf does to it's mother when it isn't satisfied with what's happening, or is bored, or whatever? Very few farmers I've seen, chomp
down and try to run out the door of the milk barn with a mouth full.
Nature is not all fuzzy-wuzzy cuddle-poo life of luxury for any animal. A little puppy with needle teeth can torture its mother, never mind half a
dozen snapping little crocs chasing her around.
I remember years ago helping to release a sea otter that had been injured, nursed back to health and then taken out to be released. The animal was
about four years of age, a male. When the door was opened the little guy swam out, turned around and hauled burrito back into the cage.
I am dead against animal cruelty, especially elective cruelty that is not unintentional. My hens in Michoacán have the run of the barnyard. At night
they get locked up away from marauding possums. Spoiled? Yeah you can say that. They scratch, they get corn and rice in their diet. They also have a
rooster they follow around everywhere. If you look at a pasture it is the cows that always migrate to the bull. This is nature.
If you should compare what man eats now compared to what he ate in 3,000 BC, or 1492, or 1776, according to the pundits, we should have gone extinct.
No fruit, no vegetables during the winter. Salt pork and flour flatcakes. Boil it down to three modern day enemies, excessive sugars, salt and fat.
Greatly reduce the three of them and weight shall be shed. A person does not need to resort to gobbling tree moss to be healthy. It is sugars, salt
and fat that does most of the damage. Yes carbohydrates create sugar. One of the absolute worst things I can eat is rice, in tandem with corn,
followed by potatoes. It takes common sense to makes things work right, not just some fad diet.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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