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JZ
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Other factors against mass adoption of EV, or lets say moving too quickly towards them at least.
1. The electric grid is already fragile. No way it can support EV charging at a high level. Renewable energy will never be able to fill the void
and they refuse to invest in nuclear.
2. China owns 75% of the world's battery manufacturing capacity. Moving to EV's will shift our dependence to a communist regimen ever more.
3. Child labor is being used to mine the raw battery materials in Africa and China.
4. You can't recycle batteries, where will they all go?
5. Scientists have studied the relationship between temperature and C02 levels going back many thousands of years. They have found that C02 follows
temperature changes, it does not drive temperature change.
6. Every climate prediction the scientists have made the last 60 years has failed to come true.
7. Even if the best case scenario's of US/Europe's emissions reductions came true, it wouldn't make a dent in C02 levels because of what the rest of
the world is doing.
8. There are many, many reasons to push a climate change narrative that has nothing to do with helping the human race.
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Cliffy
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If we go full renewable just what do we do when the wind doesn't blow at night?
Do we all realize that we have to have 100% back up capability using dino juice OR NUC to any "green" grid because the wind sometimes doesn't blow at
night? Its because the "grid" doesn't store electricity. It only delivers it from where its made to where it is used. Coal, gas or oil fired power
plants will never go away.
How many coal fired power plants are India and China now building over the next 20 years?
Why did the EU just give up on their 2035 all electric car mandate?
How many birds are we willing to kill with a 1,000% increase in wind farms? Do you know that they now have special dispensation on killing protected
birds? Or any birds?
How many animals, bugs and insects are we willing to kill as we scrape millions of acres of land clear of any vegetation to layout solar farms?
Where will the millions of acres come from?
Does anyone know what percentage of the air is actually comprised of CO2?
Does everyone know that plants USE CO2 to survive?
CO2 in the atmosphere was 50 to 100 times higher than it is now 65 million years ago (400PPM now to 2,000 to 4,000PPM 65MYA).
Just prior to the dinosaurs dying out (65MYA), life on earth flourished when the dinosaurs walked on earth (with all that CO2 none the less. ) The
planet didn't die with high CO2!
Why hasn't the US Navy ever had a NUC accident with all of their nuclear powered ships? Ask any NUC ship Commander. I have.
Batteries will lose out to hydrogen! The problem of carbon stripping from the base stock has been solved.
If we go batteries will we be willing to approve over 320 new mines for the minerals here in the USA or do we just pay China and be beholding to them
for the raw materials?
Show me some valid figures about TOTAL cost cradle to grave of wind turbines and solar panels? Including how you get rid of them when they die. Right
now we have thousands of used blades in storage with no way to recycle them. What's going to happen in another 20 years of them?
I hear lots of rhetoric but no actual answers to solve the questions.
I'm listening- give me your solutions to the upcoming problems of going green.
Show me valid cost comparisons per Watt hour WITHOUT subsidies for solar and wind?
Solve the problems instead of just rhetoric
Offer valid counter arguments not just "your wrong"
People are listening!
Can you answer them with intellect instead of argument?
Canceling the opposition and burying your head in the sand won't solve a thing.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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JZ
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Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  | If we go full renewable just what do we do when the wind doesn't blow at night?
Do we all realize that we have to have 100% back up capability using dino juice OR NUC to any "green" grid because the wind sometimes doesn't blow at
night? Its because the "grid" doesn't store electricity. It only delivers it from where its made to where it is used. Coal, gas or oil fired power
plants will never go away.
How many coal fired power plants are India and China now building over the next 20 years?
Why did the EU just give up on their 2035 all electric car mandate?
How many birds are we willing to kill with a 1,000% increase in wind farms? Do you know that they now have special dispensation on killing protected
birds? Or any birds?
How many animals, bugs and insects are we willing to kill as we scrape millions of acres of land clear of any vegetation to layout solar farms?
Where will the millions of acres come from?
Does anyone know what percentage of the air is actually comprised of CO2?
Does everyone know that plants USE CO2 to survive?
CO2 in the atmosphere was 50 to 100 times higher than it is now 65 million years ago (400PPM now to 2,000 to 4,000PPM 65MYA).
Just prior to the dinosaurs dying out (65MYA), life on earth flourished when the dinosaurs walked on earth (with all that CO2 none the less. ) The
planet didn't die with high CO2!
Why hasn't the US Navy ever had a NUC accident with all of their nuclear powered ships? Ask any NUC ship Commander. I have.
Batteries will lose out to hydrogen! The problem of carbon stripping from the base stock has been solved.
If we go batteries will we be willing to approve over 320 new mines for the minerals here in the USA or do we just pay China and be beholding to them
for the raw materials?
Show me some valid figures about TOTAL cost cradle to grave of wind turbines and solar panels? Including how you get rid of them when they die. Right
now we have thousands of used blades in storage with no way to recycle them. What's going to happen in another 20 years of them?
I hear lots of rhetoric but no actual answers to solve the questions.
I'm listening- give me your solutions to the upcoming problems of going green.
Show me valid cost comparisons per Watt hour WITHOUT subsidies for solar and wind?
Solve the problems instead of just rhetoric
Offer valid counter arguments not just "your wrong"
People are listening!
Can you answer them with intellect instead of argument?
Canceling the opposition and burying your head in the sand won't solve a thing.
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A lot of what you said about renewables is discussed in the 1st video I posted. It comes from a guy who dedicated his life to making renewables
succeed. He realized the damage to the Earth and cost to produce energy didn't make sense. He discusses how the US govt. spent $150B on renewables.
CO2 makes up .04% of the atmosphere.
[Edited on 4-13-2023 by JZ]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman | Just got back from Tuscaloosa on a site survey at its airport control tower. I rented a Tesla in Birmingham and drove to Tuscaloosa. The Tesla was
at 81% charged when I arrived at the motel in Birmingham. Overnight it decreased down to 78%. WTF.
I left the next morning for Tuscaloosa. Upon arriving at the Tuscaloosa, the Tesla said I did not have enough juice (30%) to get back to my motel 62
miles away. Found an out of away charging station and waited 30 minutes in a hot sun for the EV to charge up enough to get back to the motel.
I'm a traveler usually on long drives to my destinations (work, play). And am away from my car weeks at a time. It's not unusual for me to drive 1000
miles in a long day. Having to stop every few hours to charge an EV while passing 100s of gas stations is ludicrous.
You can take your progressive EV cars and shovel them where the sun does not shine. Just another way to force people to live a life dependent on
left's way of thinking even if the science does not support their argument as the videos and posts above indicate. Not to mention all the other
supporting data that has been published and discounted by the "bunny huggers" as misinformation.
I love my 2000 Camry, bought new, with 250,000 miles that I can actually maintain myself, gets 37 mpg and I can leave it for weeks at a time without
the car's battery dying. Its battery is under $100 at Walmart, good for 4 years or more and is recyclable. What's the cost of an EV battery!
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You obviously are new to e-cars. If you understood them better, you would know how to refuel them, plan a trip, etc. Old people like you may want to
learn, or alternatively ignore due to low need (short lifespan, means you can keep ICE car)
Yes, e fueling will be different than petro fueling. The reality is that 1) petroleum fuel burning at rate we are doing it is bad for the climate,
and 2) petroleum fuel supply is finite. The change to alt fuels will happen, it has to.
Change upsets conservatives. But that is OK for the old and rigid, as there are still unrigid thinkers in our society. Scientists and unrigid minds
will continue to innovate and lead as always. Plenty of youth today are not stuck in conservative Luddite mindset, these youth will create the
vehicles of tomorrow.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lobsterman | Just got back from Tuscaloosa on a site survey at its airport control tower. I rented a Tesla in Birmingham and drove to Tuscaloosa. The Tesla was
at 81% charged when I arrived at the motel in Birmingham. Overnight it decreased down to 78%. WTF.
I left the next morning for Tuscaloosa. Upon arriving at the Tuscaloosa, the Tesla said I did not have enough juice (30%) to get back to my motel 62
miles away. Found an out of away charging station and waited 30 minutes in a hot sun for the EV to charge up enough to get back to the motel.
I'm a traveler usually on long drives to my destinations (work, play). And am away from my car weeks at a time. It's not unusual for me to drive 1000
miles in a long day. Having to stop every few hours to charge an EV while passing 100s of gas stations is ludicrous.
You can take your progressive EV cars and shovel them where the sun does not shine. Just another way to force people to live a life dependent on
left's way of thinking even if the science does not support their argument as the videos and posts above indicate. Not to mention all the other
supporting data that has been published and discounted by the "bunny huggers" as misinformation.
I love my 2000 Camry, bought new, with 250,000 miles that I can actually maintain myself, gets 37 mpg and I can leave it for weeks at a time without
the car's battery dying. Its battery is under $100 at Walmart, good for 4 years or more and is recyclable. What's the cost of an EV battery!
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What do the rapidly growing in wealth Norwegians know that we don't? They keep setting new records for EV adoption despite having massive surpluses of
petroleum fuels available to them. EV's aren't for everyone and every purpose...yet, but in Norway, apparently it suits 90 percent of the new vehicle
buyers as the EV's sold were limited by the supply available and could not meet demand. They sure have improved in the past 2 decades though, and the
Engineers haven't stopped innovating. Here's the latest out of Norway.
https://insideevs.com/news/629068/norway-electric-car-sales-...
[Edited on 4-13-2023 by JDCanuck]
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JZ
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The population on Norway is 5M. US is 330M.
EV's have utility when matched with the correct usage.
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | The population on Norway is 5M. US is 330M.
EV's have utility when matched with the correct usage.
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If you check out that chart of sales you will note the Tesla still leads the batch at over double the sales of the next competitor (VW ID4). I still
remember how people said the Tesla would never survive, but Musk continued to innovate despite his multitude of detractors (and he did it in the US).
We need more people like him driving the future trends.
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ | The population on Norway is 5M. US is 330M.
EV's have utility when matched with the correct usage.
|
If you check out that chart of sales you will note the Tesla still leads the batch at over double the sales of the next competitor (VW ID4). I still
remember how people said the Tesla would never survive, but Musk continued to innovate despite his multitude of detractors (and he did it in the US).
We need more people like him driving the future trends. |
Musk is a stud. He is exactly the guy America needs right now.
I'm looking at Hybrids for my wife's next SUV right now. I'll consider a pure EV in 3-5 years. But because it's right for us, not because the
government tells me I have to.
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JDCanuck
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When it comes to the problem of supplying all that renewable power to the grid when solar, wind power is weak, Ford Engineers (US innovation again)
threw a new factor into the mix with the F150 Lightning Pro and V2H capability. Rapidly being copied by foreign manufacturers in their newer models.
This should have the capability of replacing a huge number of emergency petroleum fueled backup generators as well.
https://www.cars.com/articles/whats-bidirectional-charging-a...
As for Baja use, I am waiting to see how this one plays out.
https://www.cars.com/articles/u-s-bound-2024-kia-ev9-reveale...
[Edited on 4-13-2023 by JDCanuck]
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Cliffy
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"You obviously are new to e-cars. If you understood them better, you would know how to refuel them, plan a trip, etc. Old people like you may
want to learn, or alternatively ignore due to low need (short lifespan, means you can keep ICE car)
Yes, e fueling will be different than petro fueling. The reality is that 1) petroleum fuel burning at rate we are doing it is bad for the climate, and
2) petroleum fuel supply is finite. The change to alt fuels will happen, it has to.
Change upsets conservatives. But that is OK for the old and rigid, as there are still unrigid thinkers in our society. Scientists and unrigid minds
will continue to innovate and lead as always. Plenty of youth today are not stuck in conservative Luddite mindset, these youth will create the
vehicles of tomorrow.?"
You can't win an argument or change minds to your side by name calling! It shows lack of intelligence and ignorance of the subject you verbally
support.
Try answering some of the questions posed
Tell us what you do with all the 100s of millions of dead batteries?
Tell us where you propose to get the raw materials needed for 100s of millions of new batteries?
Tell us what we do when the wind doesn't blow at night without 100% backup petroleum powered power stations?
Tell us how you plan to get approvals for new mines?
How do you propose to power ocean going ships without dino juice?
How about farm equipment that can't stop for days at a time during harvest season?
How about earthmoving equipment to build cities?
Tell us this- IF the USA AND Europe went totally "green" how much would that reduce total world wide CO2 emissions? Have you got that answer?
How do you propose to handle the rest of the "developing" world (who uses cheap coal) and China and India who have no intension of dropping coal as a
power plant fuel?
Its easy to sit there and say just buy electric vehicles
Its easy to sit there and pontificate-
Its easy to sit there and cast stones
It takes knowledge and guts to stick your neck out and offer solutions to problems your position creates
I'm listening but so far no one has offered solutions to the big problems of going "green"
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
Try answering some of the questions posed
Tell us what you do with all the 100s of millions of dead batteries?
Tell us where you propose to get the raw materials needed for 100s of millions of new batteries?
Tell us what we do when the wind doesn't blow at night without 100% backup petroleum powered power stations?
Tell us how you plan to get approvals for new mines?
How do you propose to power ocean going ships without dino juice?
How about farm equipment that can't stop for days at a time during harvest season?
How about earthmoving equipment to build cities?
Tell us this- IF the USA AND Europe went totally "green" how much would that reduce total world wide CO2 emissions? Have you got that answer?
How do you propose to handle the rest of the "developing" world (who uses cheap coal) and China and India who have no intension of dropping coal as a
power plant fuel?
Its easy to sit there and say just buy electric vehicles
Its easy to sit there and pontificate-
Its easy to sit there and cast stones
It takes knowledge and guts to stick your neck out and offer solutions to problems your position creates
I'm listening but so far no one has offered solutions to the big problems of going "green"
|
Many people are working on answering your questions: visionaries, scientist, engineers, entrepeneuers, planners, etc.
change will happen over time. Change is constant.
We dont need all of the solutions today. We set goals today, then work toward those goals. And i am sure the goals will be adjusted as technology and
ideas evolve.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Cliffy
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Posts: 986
Registered: 12-19-2013
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You want 60% of all vehicle sales to be battery in 10 years but you have no solutions to the problems of today?
Cart before the horse
And again you didn't answer one question just like all the other folks promoting the idea of green.
How come NO ONE is willing to provide or propose answers?
NO ONE is willing to support their position with critical debate?
All we hear is - 'it will come!"
To paraphrase a movie-
"You don't want the truth because you can't handle the truth"
Bury your head in the sand with just hope and dreams.
[Edited on 4-13-2023 by Cliffy]
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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JDCanuck
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Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
I'm looking at Hybrids for my wife's next SUV right now. I'll consider a pure EV in 3-5 years. But because it's right for us, not because the
government tells me I have to.
|
Did you take a look at the new EV Telluride? It may be what we are waiting for. And yes, 3-5 years seems like the right time frame to see how reliable
they are and whether they actually meet the expectations. Right now, the manufacturers are falling all over themselves trying to justify high pricing
for what was simple application with between 1/5 and 1/100 the moving parts to maintain compared to the IC vehicles. When will we get back to
simplicity and durability as primary design concepts
[Edited on 4-13-2023 by JDCanuck]
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PaulW
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As Cliffy wrote there are many issues not resolved. Realistically 99% of the EVs offered are for urban use, not for distance traveling.
47% of the US population say the reason they do not buy an EV are:
Chargers - both time to charge and distance between chargers.
Cost of the vehicle.
Meanwhile a PHEV allows distance traveling with ICE and the advantage of short EV used when at home to save gas. Cost of the hybrid of course is
remains high and the disadvantages of ICE prevail.
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akmaxx
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No rare earths, no Chinese, 3000% faster charging, Rio Tinto is first partner (aluminum and heavy equipment galore), no fire hazard, 100 easily
recyclable...solutions for your questions.
My money is on GMGMF.
https://www.youtube.com/@graphenemanufacturinggroup5402
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
"You obviously are new to e-cars. If you understood them better, you would know how to refuel them, plan a trip, etc. Old people like you may
want to learn, or alternatively ignore due to low need (short lifespan, means you can keep ICE car)
Yes, e fueling will be different than petro fueling. The reality is that 1) petroleum fuel burning at rate we are doing it is bad for the climate, and
2) petroleum fuel supply is finite. The change to alt fuels will happen, it has to.
Change upsets conservatives. But that is OK for the old and rigid, as there are still unrigid thinkers in our society. Scientists and unrigid minds
will continue to innovate and lead as always. Plenty of youth today are not stuck in conservative Luddite mindset, these youth will create the
vehicles of tomorrow.?"
You can't win an argument or change minds to your side by name calling! It shows lack of intelligence and ignorance of the subject you verbally
support.
Try answering some of the questions posed
Tell us what you do with all the 100s of millions of dead batteries?
Tell us where you propose to get the raw materials needed for 100s of millions of new batteries?
Tell us what we do when the wind doesn't blow at night without 100% backup petroleum powered power stations?
Tell us how you plan to get approvals for new mines?
How do you propose to power ocean going ships without dino juice?
How about farm equipment that can't stop for days at a time during harvest season?
How about earthmoving equipment to build cities?
Tell us this- IF the USA AND Europe went totally "green" how much would that reduce total world wide CO2 emissions? Have you got that answer?
How do you propose to handle the rest of the "developing" world (who uses cheap coal) and China and India who have no intension of dropping coal as a
power plant fuel?
Its easy to sit there and say just buy electric vehicles
Its easy to sit there and pontificate-
Its easy to sit there and cast stones
It takes knowledge and guts to stick your neck out and offer solutions to problems your position creates
I'm listening but so far no one has offered solutions to the big problems of going "green"
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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Legislating IC vehicles off the road seems the wrong way to go to me. Better the government provide both price incentives and support for more
charging stations as they did in Europe. Europeans I spoke to are dismayed by the rarity of charging stations when they come for visits. But if there
is a way to justify more bureaucracy and increased taxation excuses that seems to be what we are after here in NA at present. Long range travel will
come if storage technology continues at the pace it has been. Cost...does everyone need all the auto driving apps and 4 large TV displays in their
off-road vehicles? Just more electronics to break down from rough use.
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18377
Registered: 9-16-2006
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Feeling sad for the fate of the polar bears and DK's palm tree...
'Uncharted levels': Gases fueling climate change still rising at an alarming rate, NOAA says
The steady drumbeat of emissions fueling global warming continued unabated in 2022, federal scientists announced this week.
Levels of carbon dioxide and methane, the two greenhouse gases emitted by human activity that are the most significant contributors to climate change,
continued their "historically high rates of growth" in our atmosphere during 2022, scientists from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
said, which added that the gases are now in "uncharted levels."
“The observations collected by NOAA scientists in 2022 show that greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise at an alarming pace and will persist in
the atmosphere for thousands of years,” said Rick Spinrad, the NOAA administrator, in a statement. “The time is now to address greenhouse gas
pollution and to lower human-caused emissions."
'Highest sustained rate of increases' of carbon dioxide
The global surface average for carbon dioxide during 2022 was 417.06 parts per million (ppm), which is an increase of 2.13 ppm over the 2021 average,
NOAA said.
2022 was the 11th consecutive year carbon dioxide increased by more than 2 ppm, the highest sustained rate of increases in the 65 years since
monitoring began.
The increase in carbon dioxide coincided with yet another anomalously warm year for the planet in 2022: Data from both NASA and NOAA agreed that
global average temperatures last year were among the warmest on record.
Which countries emit the most carbon dioxide?
Previous data shows three countries account for the lion’s share of global carbon dioxide emissions. China is highest, at 32%, though that's begun
to fall slightly. The United States is next with 14%, an increase of 1.5% over 2021.
India's emissions continue to rise and now make up 8% of the global total. Together, the 27 nations of the European Union account for 8%.
Methane also increased last year
Atmospheric levels of methane, a powerful, heat-trapping greenhouse gas that’s the second-biggest contributor to human-caused global warming after
carbon dioxide, also increased in 2022.
Methane increased to an average of 1,911.9 parts per billion (ppb) in 2022. The 2022 methane increase was 14.0 ppb, the fourth-largest annual increase
recorded since NOAA’s measurements began in 1983, and follows record growth in 2020 and 2021.
"Our latest measurements confirm that the most important greenhouse gases continue to increase rapidly in the atmosphere,” said Stephen Montzka, a
senior scientist with NOAA’s Global Monitoring Laboratory. “It's a clear sign that much more effort will be required if we hope to stabilize
levels of these gases in the next few decades."
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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PaulW
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goat
Does this NOAA report have independent review?
Or is just one guy at NOAA that wrote a report?
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
I have no dog in this pony show ("debate"?), but I don't follow your logic: What does relative population have to do with all this?
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Have you ever done project management?
I have. For years. Managing a project with 10 ppl is infinitely easier than managing one with a 100 ppl.
Plus we could write a 100 (1,000?) page document of why the infrastructure, culture, economics, climate variety, political environment, world role,
etc. of Norway is much, much easier to steer.
[Edited on 4-14-2023 by JZ]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
I have no dog in this pony show ("debate"?), but I don't follow your logic: What does relative population have to do with all this?
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Have you ever done project management?
I have. For years.
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I bet your PM skills are worse than your law skills 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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