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surabi
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Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  | Can anyone tell me how much CO2 a major city gives off minus the vehicle traffic? People, pets, A/C units. Building Heaters, dry cleaners,
laundromats, machine shops, paint shops and painting in general- ETC ETC They all add to the soup in one way or another,
We always seem to have people who want to pluck the low hanging fruit.
Here's a question How did some European countries solve their homeless problem? |
I'm quite sure you can find such information by doing some in-depth research, but you're apparently too lazy for that and probably don't really care,
which is why you ask these things on an internet forum of people who are unqualified to give factual answers. These posts of yours just present
reasons you seem to think are insurmoutable so you can justify continuing to be part of the problem instead of the solutions.
I was listening to a podcast today on man-made climate change and doing all we can to mitigate it. The climate expert who was being interviewed said
something applicable to many issues- "Where there is interest, there are solutions".
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Cliffy
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The question was I guess to obtuse for you
Lets try again-
With all the emitters in the WORLD not including vehicles how much of an affect will spending all the money planned in the USA and EU (BTW Germany
just gave up their all electric car mandate as unworkable) to limit emissions have on the TOTAL WORLD climate ?
What percentage decline in CO2 will the world see if it were to come to pass (Considering China will triple if not more their coal fired powerplants
over the next 3 decades and so will India)?
Even in testimony before Congress the current administration wouldn't answer that question just this last month.
Coal and dino-juice ain't going away anytime soon in most of the world.
Get realistic instead of burying your head in the sand.
If you believe in what you say start offering solutions yourself instead of name calling. So far YOU haven't offered a thing except rhetoric.
I posed the questions I have and no one has addressed them. Answer the questions All I hear is deflection of them.
Why don't you want to address them head on yourself?
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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surabi
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The solutions start with accepting that if you want to be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem, that we can't continue to live the
way we have been living. We need to not consume as much as we're consuming, we need to walk or bicycle the four blocks to the store instead of jumping
in the car, and shop more locally. We need to rideshare, carshare, give up some of our toys. We need to eat what is produced locally in season, not
indulge ourselves in thinking we are entitled to have oranges available all year in areas where oranges don't grow, that are shipped from across the
planet.
The problem is humans being unwilling to sacrifice anything about their lifestyle and habits for the good of all, and the solution is to change our
expectations and the way we live. That's the basic thing that needs to happen. If you want a gas powered car, because it would be "inconvenient" and
boring to sit at a charging station, that makes you part of the problem. Accepting some inconvenience so you can stop consuming fossil fuels is part
of the solution.
And the people like the ones here who keep idiotically pointing out that the climate has always changed, as if the world's foremost scientists and
everyone else is ignorant of that fact, need to get a brain. What we are seeing now is unprecedented, the rate of climate change is unprecedented, the
disasters it is causing are unprecedented, and we know damn well it's because of human activity, so stop denying that it's a problem we need to solve,
just stop.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by surabi]
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RFClark
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S,
The real problem is that there are way too many humans here. We need to spread out more. There is plenty of room and resources up there too! You
don’t need to settle for less because some political Luddite with a degree in art appreciation lacks the imagination to think outside their box.
I could list many things that the “foremost scientists” knew that was dead wrong, but I’ll just restate that Yale’s “foremost climate
boffins” admit that they don’t understand why the climate isn’t warming like their model says it should.
That doesn’t mean it’s not changing or we shouldn’t keep the place clean. It does mean that we should insist that everyone do the same. Starting
with not burning things like coal and clearing land and fields by burning them too. Then there are wildfires and wars!
Virtue signaling by walking to the store or riding a bike will never offset even part of what the yearly wildfires contribute in CO2 so get over it
and do something useful.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by RFClark]
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Cliffy
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People want to stop clearing the land and burning the forest yet are perfectly happy to clean millions and millions of acres of land, killing every
living thing on that land to further solar field installations.
Just who owns that land, where does it have to be located to be useful?
The same with planting wind farms.
Just a couple of problems that the current hysteria brings about.
Riding bicycles and walking a mile won't solve the real issues upcoming.
Between the US and the EU we have about 800,000,000 people combined, Between India and China alone we have 3 BILLION, 6 times as many humans.
We go 100% no CO2 and they don't. They increase their CO2 contribution by 300%. Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?
Never said to be wasteful and pollute at will, being good stewards of the land is noble BUT a one sided emergency because of group hysteria is stupid.
We can't predict El Nino 2 years out but we can predict the end of the world in a decade from now?
Cataclysmic weather events have happened throughout time since the earth has been here. To think we can change that dynamic is folly.
How much of an impact will OUR cut back accomplish?
BTW, "sacrifice for the common good" is a hall mark of Communism
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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SFandH
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And a really good idea. Not communism, but generally speaking. It doesn't make any difference what socio-economic system you prefer. Contributing to
the common good is a high moral principle that benefits all.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by SFandH]
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
And a really good idea. Not communism, but generally speaking. It doesn't make any difference what socio-economic system you prefer. Contributing to
the common good is a high moral principle that benefits all.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by SFandH] |
Yes, for sure it is good.
When the govt. controls your level of contribution it is bad.
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
And a really good idea. Not communism, but generally speaking. It doesn't make any difference what socio-economic system you prefer. Contributing to
the common good is a high moral principle that benefits all.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by SFandH] |
Yes, for sure it is good.
When the govt. controls your level of contribution it is bad.
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I prefer contributing to the common good via taxes than contributing to building 14 new ballistic missile nuclear submarines, a new fleet of
ground-based nuclear-tipped ICBMs, and new nuclear weapon-carrying strategic bombers, all of which are happening now. It doesn't seem to make the news
very much though. "Beware of the military-industrial complex." - Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of Allied Forces, 5-star army general, and
two-term president of the United States.
Where are people's priorities?
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | The solutions start with accepting that if you want to be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem, that we can't continue to live the
way we have been living. We need to not consume as much as we're consuming, we need to walk or bicycle the four blocks to the store instead of jumping
in the car, and shop more locally. We need to rideshare, carshare, give up some of our toys. We need to eat what is produced locally in season, not
indulge ourselves in thinking we are entitled to have oranges available all year in areas where oranges don't grow, that are shipped from across the
planet.
The problem is humans being unwilling to sacrifice anything about their lifestyle and habits for the good of all, and the solution is to change our
expectations and the way we live. That's the basic thing that needs to happen. If you want a gas powered car, because it would be "inconvenient" and
boring to sit at a charging station, that makes you part of the problem. Accepting some inconvenience so you can stop consuming fossil fuels is part
of the solution.
And the people like the ones here who keep idiotically pointing out that the climate has always changed, as if the world's foremost scientists and
everyone else is ignorant of that fact, need to get a brain. What we are seeing now is unprecedented, the rate of climate change is unprecedented, the
disasters it is causing are unprecedented, and we know damn well it's because of human activity, so stop denying that it's a problem we need to solve,
just stop.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by surabi] |
Thanks for that.
"Think globally, act locally" is a fundamental environmental principle.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by SFandH]
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RFClark
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Government should be a part of the solution, often it’s most of the problem. Mexico City has a water problem just like other big cities. Problems
with governance affects the quality of people’s lives.
https://apple.news/AaHEZxdUdQMaz2aCSZU3ljA
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Cliffy
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If you really want to make a change in the worlds atmosphere put your resources where it will do the most good NOT down the drain in a
self-aggrandizing effort to look at yourself in the mirror and smile that will have very little to no affect on the subject.
Work to get China and India on board and go even half way to what we have already gone in the USA in the last 40 years.
THEN you'll make a difference. A big difference.
Tossing around names and name calling only shows you have no counter to the questions I posed.
Again try answering the questions and solve the issues I presented to your path to handling global climate change.
Try to answer just 2 of them-
1) Why the change in name to Global Climate Change from Global Climate Warming?
2) How much depression of CO2 would we see in percentage in the total world atmosphere if we spend the billions of $$ needed to go completely green in
the USA and EU?
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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RFClark
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Cliffy,
You should include how much CO2 do wildfires and controlled burning globally contribute annually? What percentage of that is generated within North
America? (Mexico, US, Canada)
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surabi
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They had to dumb it down for the simple-minded who don't understand that "global warming" doesn't mean it's steadily getting hotter everywhere at the
same time.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by surabi]
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
They had to dumb it down for the simple-minded who don't understand that "global warming" doesn't mean it's steadily getting hotter everywhere at the
same time.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by surabi] |
Heat waves are getting hotter
Cold snaps are getting colder
Droughts are getting drier
Rainfall is getting stronger
Winds are getting stronger
Hurricanes will be stronger and wetter
Floods are getting deeper and more common
Tornados are getting stronger and more prevalent
Glaciers are melting
Wildfires are getting bigger and more frequent
etc., etc, you get the picture.
Temperature is a measure of the kinetic energy of the atoms and molecules that compose the atmosphere. The more energy, the more severe (energetic)
all types of weather and the more destructive the consequences.
Global warming due to the burning of fossil fuels is the cause. Climate change is the result. Burning less fossil fuel is the right thing to do.
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by SFandH]
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surabi
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It's a hallmark of the possibility of continuing survival of the human race and all creatures who inhabit this planet. It's a hallmark of those who
care about more than themselves.
I guess by your standards, parents who make sacrifices so their children can have a better life are "Communists".
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RFClark
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S,
Do you know the Russian fable about the Collectivist and the Jinn?
The Collectivist found an ornate bottle with a stopper in it. Anticipating the prospect of a cheep drunk he removed the stopper, releasing a Jinn. The
Jin being grateful offered the Collectivist a wish that the Jinn would grant.
The collectivist who was grousing because there was nothing to drink in the bottle, just a talking cloud of smoke, brightened, thought deeply and
answered. “My neighbour has a cow”, he said. The Jinn with a knowing nod answered, “and you want one as well”? “No” said the Collectivist,
“I want you to kill his cow”!
“For the grater good and a better life for our decedents”? Not on your terms there won’t be! Dead cows in abundance, however, their will be!
Siri didn’t know what a Jinn or Djinn was either! Jin - https://music.apple.com/us/artist/jin/1191850724 also an old Chinese Dynasty!
Джинн from the original Russian!
[Edited on 4-27-2023 by RFClark]
[Edited on 4-28-2023 by RFClark]
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surabi
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??? Was this an exercise in showing us your poor spelling?
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RFClark
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S,
When you don’t have a good or any reply, go to spelling, punctuation and grammar!
I freely admit that I’m an indifferent speller in 3 languages!
Bon Appetite!
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by caj13 | JZ
Was this also science?
 [/rquote]
No JZ It wasn't science - turns out it is a fake magazine cover some MAGA climate deniers fabricated up because they had n o science or fact to back
their denier claims.
a 30 second google search would of told you that - instead you chose to post this complete and utter BS because you wanted to believe in it.
Facts and science JZ - not Political posturing and inventing BS |
"A 2008 paper published by the American Meteorological Society called the past existence of a global-cooling consensus a “pervasive myth.” The
hypothesis attracted only scant news coverage in the 1970s and was not at any point embraced by the scientific community at large. One of the most
widely circulated claims involving global cooling — a purported Time Magazine cover warning of a “coming Ice Age” — is a hoax.
You notice that JZ and the rest of the man-made climate change deniers never come back to apologize for promoting fake information.
[Edited on 4-28-2023 by surabi]
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SFandH
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Here's the real Time cover from 1977 in question:
https://time.com/4778937/fake-time-cover-ice-age/
[Edited on 4-28-2023 by SFandH]
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