| Pages:
1
..
3
4
5
6 |
DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | | Originally posted by DENNISI carry on in a contentious thread which proves me right and nobody says anything. When I'm wrong, you jump my
stuff. |
Well, duh. I seldom disagree with people who I think are right, and often disagree with people who I think are wrong.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
|
|
|
DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNISRacism in Mexico is a cultural trait. Those who are in the sphere of the Chilango culture, dislike Blacks. That
culture spreads throughout the country. If you get to know the Mexicans, most will tell you of their dislike for Blacks. It's practically a moot
point since most Mexicans have never had to be around Blacks. But, the negative feelings exist.
I've always thought that people need something, or somebody to hate, just to justify their own misery. |
Alrighty then, we've officially moved into Orwellian territory here. Remember this from your first post on this thread?
| Quote: | | Originally posted by DENNISI've got to say, I'm confused as to why you would bring that question to a board comprised of 98% old white
people, most of whom are, if anything at all, Christian. If you belong to a Black, Muslim community, there has to be an informed opinion available
there. You have to know that moving into Mexico anywhere is going to fill your life with a new diversity. Why would you ask us? How would we know?
|
First you tell the guy to go somewhere else because no one around these parts could possibly have an answer to his question, and then you proceed to
concisely provide one. Huh?
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Mexico City elitism.
|
|
|
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Racism in Mexico is a cultural trait. Those who are in the sphere of the Chilango culture, dislike Blacks. That culture spreads throughout the
country. If you get to know the Mexicans, most will tell you of their dislike for Blacks. It's practically a moot point since most Mexicans have
never had to be around Blacks. But, the negative feelings exist.
I've always thought that people need something, or somebody to hate, just to justify their own misery. |
Chilango culture? now your an expert on something even i don't fully understand? your not only wrong, but way way out there in your opinions.
Whats wrong with you?
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
First you tell the guy to go somewhere else because no one around these parts could possibly have an answer to his question, and then you proceed to
concisely provide one. Huh? |
Thanks for the "concise"part. It was just an effort to do what you're incapable of doing, carry on a dialog. Now, as is your technique in
arguementation, you can wait six hours while you formulate a snappy observation and give us all a stale reply.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Chilango culture? now your an expert on something even i don't fully understand? your not only wrong, but way way out there in your opinions.
Whats wrong with you? |
You, at this moment. You understand what I said and if you don't, how do you know that I'm wrong?
|
|
|
woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Chilango culture? now your an expert on something even i don't fully understand? your not only wrong, but way way out there in your opinions.
Whats wrong with you? |
You, at this moment. You understand what I said and if you don't, how do you know that I'm wrong? |
  
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
Are you saying that Chilangos are more racist than, say, native BajaCalifornianos?
|
Yes. Elitism takes that profile as well as others. I think you know this.
|
|
|
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Chilango culture? now your an expert on something even i don't fully understand? your not only wrong, but way way out there in your opinions.
Whats wrong with you? |
You, at this moment. You understand what I said and if you don't, how do you know that I'm wrong? |
Because clearly, your one of the last people on this board that i would consider an expert or a reasonable and honest voice concerning Mexican issues.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Too bad your arguement has disolved to that point but, it puts us on a level field.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
You may be confusing protectionism with elitism.
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
JUST DO IT MAN!
I would be the last person to call myself an expert on sociointegration or any aspect of racism and the demographics associated with Mexicans in
Mexico. That doesn't mean I've not heard derogatory and downright racist comments from Mexicans. This post has opened Pandoras' Box. Does anyone
really want to disguss the prevalent attitude exhibited by many towards Muslims and or Blacks. We've all seen the satirical cartoons featuring young
Blacks. This is accepted in Mexico and would be called something a bit stronger here.
A number of folks of Mexican descent have volunteered their opinion during private conversation. It is just like America. Some like others
regardless of race,color,orientation or religion. Others do not, and inherently despise other groups. I had a friend that hated all kinds of groups.
What a generous person he could be to folks he liked. What an arsehole he could also be to anyone who didn't fit. As he got older his tolerance never
faltered. Our friendship did however.
Newbie, you seem to have some guts. Get down to Baja and start eating tacos. A sure way to discover Mexico. I doubt even if some don't like you
chances are you'll never meet them on your visits. Just like here.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
Good ideas Sharky. Get involved with life in Mexico. Quit worrying about things that have probably never happened. Be yourself.
One thing though, when you see a restaurant that sells carnitas, don't eat there. It'll cancel your ticket to heaven.
|
|
|
toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Chilango culture? now your an expert on something even i don't fully understand? your not only wrong, but way way out there in your opinions.
Whats wrong with you? |
You, at this moment. You understand what I said and if you don't, how do you know that I'm wrong? |
Because clearly, your one of the last people on this board that i would consider an expert or a reasonable and honest voice concerning Mexican issues.
|
No no no!
Jesse,
I'm the one who isn't an expert on anything (see below) 
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
armchair professors
so we're all robots then?
Seriously tho Mr Newbie, methinks ifn' you don't bring problems upon yourself you will have lots of fun. But stand on a barstool and with a tequila
bottle and shout your message......well, that could be bad.
Hmmmmmmm??? Did that come out right?
(edited for added text)
[Edited on 8-29-2007 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Newbie, you seem to have some guts. Get down to Baja and start eating tacos. . |
Sharks,
A great suggestion, as they don't mind who eats them.
Newbie...be careful....some of the tastier tacos are pork.....I have worked this out with my conscience and my Jewish heritage....and like the shrimp
best of all.
This thread has certainly touched a nerve....I didn't know if the original post by Newbie was for real or not....still don't, but the reactions are
entertaining.
Perhaps Newbie enjoys fishing
Some of the old white Arizona Christians could take him out to wet a line sometime....or some Nomad surfer who doesn't have his rashguard in a knot
around his huevos since Dave gave up a well-mapped secret spot could show Newbie where the best sets are....
It is risky to join a forum with comments about race, religion, and politics when the forum consists of unknown factors....
Newbie....best bet is to travel and form your own opinions....
Don't believe everything you think....
|
|
|
Peloncito
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 1-9-2007
Location: Los Gatos, CA - Los Barriles, BCS
Member Is Offline
|
|
Welcome Newbie. I, myself am a newbie ( I guess I have been bumped up to a junior nomad, whooohooo). I know a lot of AMERICANS of all different races
and religions that decided to move/live in northern Baja and they love it. Someone once told me "the only stupid questions that exist are those that
you keep in your head and never ask!" So, good for you to ask your questions here at a forum containing many members with years of knowledge about
Baja. Take advantage of their info, I do.
BTW, 42 year old, male, caucasion, catholic, surfer born and raised in So Cal, now living in Nor Cal......
[Edited on 8-29-2007 by Peloncito]
|
|
|
DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
First you tell the guy to go somewhere else because no one around these parts could possibly have an answer to his question, and then you proceed to
concisely provide one. Huh? |
Thanks for the "concise"part. It was just an effort to do what you're incapable of doing, carry on a dialog. Now, as is your technique in
arguementation, you can wait six hours while you formulate a snappy observation and give us all a stale reply. |
Technique? Actually, it's my job, which inconveniently prevents me from being glued to the internet 24/7. I log in from time to time to monitor the
board. My snappy (thank you for the compliment) observations don't take too long to formulate. I send 'em almost as fast as I can type 'em, fresh
out of the oven, but I do try to put a little thought in my recipes and I take a deep breath before hitting the post reply key. Does that make those
piping hot posts stale? Hardly. My hope is that it helps to prevent kneejerk, ill-considered, illogical and insulting responses, not to mention
spelling errors and poor syntax. Not that anyone in this neighborhood is ever guilty of that.
As for who is incapable of dialog, if I were operating at a high snark level I might suggest that Mr. Pot should meet Mr. Kettle. However, going back
to the Amigo days and ever since, I have tried (successfully, for the most part) to abstain from these sorts of snarky volleys. I realize from other
threads that once you stake out a position, you are more often than not intractable. And as I said more than once during the J.R. period (a golden
age of snark if ever there was one), it is certainly the prerogative of every poster to say what's on his or her mind, free from censorship. I think
we've both accomplished that on this thread, and I see little benefit to hijacking it any further.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
|
|
|
Gnome-ad
Nomad
Posts: 156
Registered: 6-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Okey-Dokey
|
|
I went to bed thinking about Newbie (welcome!!) and his questions for the board. Since I am not Mexican, Black nor Muslim, I cannot answer from a
personal viewpoint. But it did make me wonder about the questions and in particular think about the fact that racism and religion were both
institutionalized in Mexico for quite a long time and those are difficult things to shake off in only a hundred years or so. (Look at the U.S.A.) The
Spanish, who ruled here, were even more dogmatic about racism than the colonies to the north at the time. The belief was that only those actually born
IN SPAIN, not just of “pure” Spanish blood, were the only people (i.e. men) capable of holding office. These were the gauchupines (please excuse poor
spelling). The next in line were those of “pure” blood who were born in New Spain. Then came all the definitions of who one was, derived from
parentage, ancestry and percentage of types of “blood” these were made up of with co-responding names for ALL of these many types of people (none of
which were respectful). Of course then there were the lowest of the low – the indigenous people who had no standing whatsoever unless they had become
Catholic. So when this board talks about “Mexicans”, who is that?
And Spain did not just conquer with armies as we all know. They brought the Catholic church of the time complete with the beloved Inquisition. This is
another thing not often mentioned. It was not possible to hold a government job or be powerful if you were not Catholic. It was expedient for many who
had been lowly peons to take on this new more powerful religion in order to be able to have power over those who had before held power over them. Do
you notice that most places here where you fill out a form (including the doctor’s office, etc.) has a question about religion? Yes, other religions
are accepted here these days, but we personally have heard bad “jokes” about Jews from some Mexicans, it seems to test the waters.
Amir has pointed out to me before that when you watch TV here, or go to the bank, or observe the job status of people, it is still a case of the
lighter, whiter (Spanish looking) folks being in power and usually the darker the skin, the less power. Luckily the darker skinned Mexicans seem to
know how to be good people with good hearts and happy souls. It is also a fact that there were many African slaves brought to New Spain that produced
offspring with the local folks. This is not talked about very much … hmmm … maybe it’s because there is racism. I heard somewhere that it is something
just now being dealt with by a population that has successfully used denial as a tool to deal with “unpleasant” realities. (Don’t we all?)
I am not saying any of this to be discouraging to Newbie, because I think it is by people being exposed to people that they cure their racist beliefs
(conscious or unconscious) and their fear of other religions, though you may want to keep your beliefs in that area as private as possible. Amir has a
full beard as well and he has been asked at military checkpoints if he knows Osama. I think it is more of a joke than anything, so learn to joke a bit
about your beard if you can. Mexicans can tend to be curious about facial hair that is not a mustache, but it is only curiosity. If you fee compelled
to say it is for religious reasons I think you can expect more questions.
So, after all this babbling, I, too, urge you to come down and try Baja. It is a wonderful place where most of the people are “new” to the area
whether they are from the mainland, el norte, Europe or wherever. We live in Baja California Sur so I’m not sure about the pace of the northern
regions. I would trust oldhippie to lead you straight with his suggestions of places to check out in TJ. Just know that the pace will most likely be
slow and feel like wading through honey compared to a few miles north. And try not to think that when the plumber, or whoever you are in need of,
doesn’t show up for days on end it’s not because you are black or a Muslim … that’s just the way it is. Patience and kindness is the key and it sounds
like you are equipped in that realm.
I wish you all good luck and God’s blessings on your journey.
Gnome-ad
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. - Ancis
|
|
|
oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
|
|
Gnome....Kudos! Maybe "sleeping on it" is a lesson well refreshed for a lot of us. Nicely done!
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
3
4
5
6 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
