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temporarilyoutofservice
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Location: BCS
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| Quote: | | Oh yeah, besides the drug and human smuggling trade. This economy has probably thrown countless thousands smack dab into the drug trade as a means of
last resort. |
You are absolutely right. And once they're involved, it haunts them.
But, I put forth the argument that the economic recession hasn't had any impact on Mexico. For one, tourists will come to Mexico because it's cheap
vacation. There should be an influx of tourism in Mexico because it's the cheaper destination.
Also, no where in Mexico is stable enough to support tourism. Only those who are willing to accept the risk will come. No where in Mexico is safe.
Maybe we should all let it be. Maybe Mexico needs no more tourism from the U.S. I'm unsure how to fix it, but Mexicans aren't inclined to fix it. Let
them sober up.
And let's face it, the average American tourists are the worst. They feel entitled, leave chit behind, need to be cleaned up after. No one in the
world generally wants them.
There also has been an increase in tourism from South American countries, namely Brazil. What about that? What impact has that shown economically?
And let not this discussion be muddied by gringos trying to steal from gringos. They are half the problem and don't give a chit about MX but only
their investments.
[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]
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temporarilyoutofservice
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| Quote: |
Before the troll interruptions, I tried to contribute to your questions. Funny how trolls always attack the person negatively, whereas others try to
be constructive in dealing with the topic.
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You were the troll. Smuggy.
| Quote: |
In my post, the first part did not deal with the negatives, of which there are some, but rather, I tried to answer the Rotarians' (Mexican National
business people, American and Canadian Residents) questions. They were interested in promoting Mulege to attract more tourists. My answers, which were
specific to Mulege, offered only positive, imagery.
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Your points only offer positive imagery in how your estate can gain in value, not about the issues of Mulege or the lack of tourism.
| Quote: |
The context was thinking in terms of PR; ways in which Mexico could change things instead of shooting itself in the foot.
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Get your house in order first.
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The second part, in which I talked about attracting investors did deal with your questions, I believe. It dealt with the problems that Mexico presents
for the whole country, including Baja. I offered my solutions
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So you can sell your POS? What? You thought you could turn 1000% on your investment and feed it to fresh meat?
Obviously, you are obvious in saying obviously and you are obvious in your intent. So much obvious that a newcomer can read you like a f****** book.
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toneart
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
As a resident down here, I'm trying to figure out how more tourism is going to make my life better.
Maybe the lesson to be learned from the Great Recession is DIVERSIFY. How often have we seen economies too dependent on tourism take it in the
shorts?
Maybe Mexico should be using this lull in tourism to find out how else it can make serious money.
Oh yeah, besides the drug and human smuggling trade. This economy has probably thrown countless thousands smack dab into the drug trade as a means of
last resort. |
Hook,
What you say is true. But what the Mulege Rotary was trying to do is figure how to make the locals' lives better; not ours necessarily. Tourism
is what they had going well for them in the past. With very little money to get by, tourism is what they know and remember.
As you say, diversification is badly needed, but doubtful this can be solved on the local level with such few resources. This is compounded by the
cultural trait, lack of imagination. They do things the way they have always been done. That is all they know.
So, again, this is a problem that the Mexican Government and Business entrepreneurs need to figure out. Then, the solutions, resources, and education
have to be disseminated down to the local level. This is not a quick fix.
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desertcpl
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Location: yuma,az
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Fight Fight Fight
hold on I just got in on this,, I need to go get my popcorn and a glass of wine, I dont want to miss this, its been to quiet around here as of late
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tripledigitken
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The Mexican government should give a $500 voucher only good for beer and tequila to foreign tourists getting their FMM at the border ($50 day max for
the voucher). That would get tourists to stay for awhile and spend their money on food, gas and hotels. For those with FM2's and 3's a monthly
allotment of $500.
That would attract new tourists and keep expats around longer.
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temporarilyoutofservice
Banned
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Sorry, I can't stop grinding on Mulege....
The Mulege "Rotarians" can't even speak Spanish but as toneart says, "it's to give them a better life."
How flocked up is that???
@toneart
I was the most constructive out of all comments. You just don't want to hear it. I basically gave the only sound advice in this thread, but no one
wants to get their hands dirty.
Learn some Spanish.
[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]
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rts551
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I don't get it... on the one hand you say turn Mexico into an armed society to curb violence against tourists (para 1)...Then you go on to say how
much more likely you are to get shot near your American home (where you can carry a gun and I am glad I don't live where you do) Para 3. Your
getting your one-liners from the talk shows a little mixed up aren't you?. . | Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Just 3 ideas:
Allow tourist to (legally) arm themselves (and let the crooks know it). When the good people with guns out-number the bad people with guns, crime
drops! Places with the stictest gun regulations have the highest crime (because only the criminals have guns).
Turn America back into the growing economy it once was, so we who like to travel can afford to, once again!
Pay the networks to provide true news that is balanced and not just negative about Mexico (even the one 'fair and balanced' network has been
anti-Mexico). For every one tourist who is the victim of a crime, there are 1000 who have a great time in Baja. You are far more likely to be robbed
or shot at around your American home than at a camp in Baja. |
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David K
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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"on the one hand you say turn Mexico into an armed society"
Where did I say that (not that I disagree)?
I said allow tourists to legally arm themselves (so that we are not pigeons for the picking).
Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of
safety concerns)!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
"on the one hand you say turn Mexico into an armed society"
Where did I say that (not that I disagree)?
I said allow tourists to legally arm themselves (so that we are not pigeons for the picking).
Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of
safety concerns)! |
What? and what you said was
"Allow tourist to (legally) arm themselves (and let the crooks know it). When the good people with guns out-number the bad people with guns, crime
drops! Places with the stictest gun regulations have the highest crime (because only the criminals have guns)."
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rts551
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Ralph, you said I advocated TURNING MEXICO INTO AN ARMED SOCIETY.
I said ALLOW TOURISTS TO ARM THEMSELVES.
Tourists do not make the society of a foreign country do they? |
I get it. Only arm the tourists....
and what you said
"You are far more likely to be robbed or shot at around your American home than at a camp in Baja. "
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sancho
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I said allow tourists to legally arm themselves (so that we are not pigeons for the picking).
Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of
safety concerns)! |
I respect your experience in Baja, but this quote has me
baffled. I have had to re read it a few times, to make
your position crystal clear, in your
opinion that to improve Tourism to Mex the Mex Govt
should allow Tourists to enter their Country with a
gun on them? You beleive more US Gringo tourists would
drive across the border if they were allowed to carry
their pistol from home? I guess the fly down Tourists
would be out of luck, since they can't board with a
heater? What stats are you using re: crime against
Tourists in Mex to come up with that conclusion?
Where are US Gringo tourists 'pigeons for the picking'?
You have totally lost me on this one
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temporarilyoutofservice
Banned
Posts: 19
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Not that we need too, as Mexico is safer for Americans than America is... BUT, to increase tourism (as many Americans don't go to Mexico because of
safety concerns)! |
That's a very unfounded claim, to say the least, and not supported by statistics nor is it supported by the stories and experiences of locals and
myself.
Do you even live in Mexico? From where were your experiences in MX that you are basing these opinions of? And just that, opinions.
Regardless, the solutions you are providing are political ideologue that are not applicable in the real-world either in the U.S. or in MX. They are
altogether, again, unfounded.
The only thing I have to say about guns as solution is allowing those with FM3s to easily obtain gun permits *if* they own property. As all of us
living down here know, we're targets... oh, right, because Mexico is safe.
Thanks for the sig.
[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]
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David K
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I have no opinion of fly in tourists, as I am not one. I drive into Baja so I have the ability to travel about and explore, on a budget.
Guns USED to be carried by visitors to Mexico (I can give you a list of books with photos and text of this)... and even as few as 20 years ago, a
hunting license was not a matter of pulling teeth to get.
When societies outlaw guns... then only outlaws will have guns... easy to understand.
In discussions with people (off Nomad), I hear often that if "we could bring in protection, we would feel safe... as it is now, without protection, we
won't go to Mexico"
Now, because I have gone to Mexico pretty often since 1965, and have NEVER felt that I needed a gun to feel safe there. Here, in the USA (liberal
California on the Left Coast), I know that criminals can break into my home with guns (they didn't register) hoping that I am unarmed!
IF all criminals KNEW every civilian could defend himself and shoot them... how low the crime rate would be.
Just yesterday in Oakland, with the few details we know, one insane person walked into a college and had all the people line up... then killed them.
How different it would be if (when he did that), every victim pulled a gun on him!??!
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temporarilyoutofservice
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Note: I updated my prior post to demonstrate a solution related to guns for residents in MX. Update as follows: The only thing I have to say about
guns as solution is allowing those with FM3s to easily obtain gun permits *if* they own property. As all of us living down here know, we're targets...
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Guns USED to be carried by visitors to Mexico (I can give you a list of books with photos and text of this)... and even as few as 20 years ago, a
hunting license was not a matter of pulling teeth to get.
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What else has changed in the past 20 years? Are you implying guns carried into Mexico created real safety for tourists?
| Quote: |
When societies outlaw guns... then only outlaws will have guns... easy to understand.
In discussions with people (off Nomad), I hear often that if "we could bring in protection, we would feel safe... as it is now, without protection, we
won't go to Mexico"
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Feeling safe is different than being safe. I am all for guns, I grew up as a cowboy. But I've also lived in densely populated cities and this wild
west of gun control isn't applicable in all situations.
I'm not talking about MX outlawing guns (you are bringing it back to ideologue). But the lack of them is doing good for tourists.
| Quote: |
Now, because I have gone to Mexico pretty often since 1965, and have NEVER felt that I needed a gun to feel safe there. Here, in the USA (liberal
California on the Left Coast), I know that criminals can break into my home with guns (they didn't register) hoping that I am unarmed!
IF all criminals KNEW every civilian could defend himself and shoot them... how low the crime rate would be.
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The crime rate anywhere is lower than MX, even here in "safe" La Paz. The only places in U.S. with higher crime rate are those with more lax gun
controls (Washington D.C., New Orleans -- need to check those).
I know you don't know, TJ police are a *lot* better than down here. Down here police and mafia are pretty much one and the same.
| Quote: |
Just yesterday in Oakland, with the few details we know, one insane person walked into a college and had all the people line up... then killed them.
How different it would be if (when he did that), every victim pulled a gun on him!??! |
Advocating for guns in colleges? Great. Also, you're applying your ideologue to one situation and how it would play out. Have you ever been to
Oakland? Or even *lived*.... I have. I've also lived in New York City and not the friendly parts. 
Let's see how the crime right escalates with more relaxed gun control in both NY and Oakland. chit, even a taxi driver is willing to beat you down if
you insist he ripped you off (which he obviously had).
To put the nail in the coffin: Listen, most of the gringos here are flocking off-their-rockers some are even felons. Let's make it easier for them to
obtain guns?
The problem is social and political corruption. I think the consensus from the experienced down here is: we can't do anything and if it gets bad
enough, we bail. And violent crime is definitely escalating. Pay attention!
Any denying it will need to be on your conscious if advocating that MX is safe for tourism while publicly encouraging travel to MX without forewarning
and a disclaimer.
[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]
[Edited on 4-4-2012 by temporarilyoutofservice]
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paranewbi
Senior Nomad
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temporarilyoutofservice sounds awful familiar for a newbi....
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willardguy
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how about do it all at the local oxxo, where we pay our telephone and electric bills?
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SFandH
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Have Gun Will Travel
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
The Mexican government should give a $500 voucher only good for beer and tequila to foreign tourists getting their FMM at the border.
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That's a great idea, I'm all for it. Maybe a pass for a free hour with three or four of TJ's working girls too!!
And we could go further with David K's idea and give tourists guns. Man, a bunch of drunk, armed guys wandering around the TJ's red light district
late at night.
Just like the old west, and totally free. What fun!!
Excellent idea David K. Everybody should be armed. You're one radical dude. 
[Edited on 4-4-2012 by SFandH]
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rts551
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OK Wyatt,
Just what FACT do you base your conclusion on. Are you aware of the violent crime rates in two of the most liberal gun states, Arizona and Alaska,
are and where they rank nationally?
Just the facts there cowboy, just the facts please.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I thought the places with the strictest gun laws (Washington DC and New York City) had the HIGHEST crime???
Anyway... this is about Baja and increasing tourism... and people that I have talked to said to me, if they could carry a gun they would go to Mexican
(some of them said 'again')...
Stay on target...  |
OK cowboy. what Factual info do you have that tourists packing will increase tourism.
I for one, would worry about people like you carrying guns in Baja.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I heard it with my own ears. This is a DISCUSSION forum, and we are exchanging ideas to help Mexico... well I am, anyway... You are just taking up
bandwidth to try and tarnish my character with mis-quotes and spins (again).
Honestly Ralph, why do I bother you so... too much Baja? Because I am in favor of the people being in charge and not some government agency? Please
give it a rest... I don't hate you or follow you around the Internet. |
Just trying to get the facts and find out how you come up with these things. Too much baja??? Another weird one. You know I I live there most of
the time. How did you come up with that one.
Just cause you heard it makes it factual? All this leads me to be thankful you DO NOT carry a gun in Baja.
Why do you want to cut off the DISCUSSION?
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