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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I think studying the effects of Chernobyl are worthwhile and for a fact even after decades some zones outside the plant are so hot, even heavily
shielded personnel can stay only minutes. For a lifetime.
Building or storing radioactive material within striking distance of a fault is folly. Properly placed and operated plants are perhaps acceptable but
it seems to be impossible to keep politics out of decisions.
A woldwide decision and agreement needs to be reached about proper storage, handling and transport of spent uranium. Like a nuclear Geneva agreement.
I sure do not see anything being done in that department. It's rather discouraging.
Building tens of billions of solar voltaic panels is not at crazy sounding as it once was.
I completed a Nuclear Emergency Response Team course (it was intense) in the late seventies. It taught me to be humble about things radioactive.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
I guess what I really want to know is what are the fisher-persons going to do?
From the recreational one to the one in it for the money... big or small, what is the plan, if any? |
Tolerances established ... perhaps ...
Not sure what the RDA (Recommended DailyAllowance) is for bacon with say 15 rads or Swordfish with 17 et al
Lower levels .. higher price ...
Better stock up on PFB ... (Pre ***ushima Beer) ... before it hits here
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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In a Japanese food market:
"Cesium readings are posted right beside the price."
Protein, carbs, fats, and cesium-137.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june12/***ushimap...
The more cesium, the lower the price???
[Edited on 8-28-2013 by SFandH]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Economic Possibilities ?
History has shown that EVERY crisis presents challenges AND opportunities.
"Personal" Radioactivity detection devices for Beach-goers could become a HOT item ?
Sounds Rad, doesn't it ?
Maybe, Lead-Lined Wetsuits ?
OK, THAT could be a weighty problem.
[Edited on 8-28-2013 by MrBillM]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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it's the end of the world as we know it!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Naw .....we just need more beer and/or beverage of choice ... its all good 
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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For those curious about consuming seafood containing low levels of radioactivity.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/are-the-levels-of-***...
I wonder if any US consumer protection agencies are testing the catch........yet.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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"***ushima Daiichi: The Battle for Containment
More than two years after suffering one of the world's worst nuclear accidents, the ***ushima Daiichi compound remains a menacing challenge for the
operator and regulators. Although the immediate danger of further meltdowns is past, ***ushima Daiichi continues to leak radiation—particularly
through water—and the damaged reactors are still too heavily contaminated to enter. When three of the plant's six reactors spun out of control
following the earthquake and tsunami of March 2011, the resulting explosions and radioactive releases contaminated a broad swath of the surrounding
region, rendering nearby towns uninhabitable for decades. Operator Tokyo Electric Power Co., or Tepco, estimates it could take up to 40 years
and trillions of yen to clean up the mess.
—Phred Dvorak, Moeko Fujii, Eleanor Warnock and Rosa de Acosta
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732351440457865...
I'm accepting the "higher" dose ... not much one can do, but, find a hobby
[Edited on 8-28-2013 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 8-28-2013 by wessongroup]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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Just saying
I HAD a friend that was one of 7 Navy divers that helped recover the 70 -kiloton H Bomb that fell into the Mediterranean off the cost of Spain in Jan.
1966 when the B-52 carrying it collide with a KC-135 jet tanker during a refueling operation. He died of cancer in 1986, just like the other six that
died before him.
Bob Durrell
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
I HAD a friend that was one of 7 Navy divers that helped recover the 70 -kiloton H Bomb that fell into the Mediterranean off the cost of Spain in Jan.
1966 when the B-52 carrying it collide with a KC-135 jet tanker during a refueling operation. He died of cancer in 1986, just like the other six that
died before him. |
I wonder what their ages were-------that would be very telling, I am thinking.
Barry
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
I HAD a friend that was one of 7 Navy divers that helped recover the 70 -kiloton H Bomb that fell into the Mediterranean off the cost of Spain in Jan.
1966 when the B-52 carrying it collide with a KC-135 jet tanker during a refueling operation. He died of cancer in 1986, just like the other six that
died before him. |
I wonder what their ages were-------that would be very telling, I am thinking.
Barry |
My friend was 55. Don't know about the others but I'm sure their ages were +/- 5-8 years
Bob Durrell
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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"Of the four Mk28 type hydrogen bombs the B-52G carried,[2] three were found on land near the small fishing village of Palomares in the municipality
of Cuevas del Almanzora, Almería, Spain. The non-nuclear explosives in two of the weapons detonated upon impact with the ground, resulting in the
contamination of a 2-square-kilometer (490-acre) (0.78 square mile) area by plutonium. The fourth, which fell into the Mediterranean Sea, was
recovered intact after a 2½-month-long search."
Cleaning up plutonium on the ground is nasty business. A spec of that stuff lodged in your lungs is a serious situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Palomares_B-52_crash
Mk-28:
BTW, reactor fuel elements, which have been damaged at ***ushima and are contaminating the water contain plutonium. Some of it from U-238 absorbing a
neutron and also, at ***ushima, some of the fresh fuel contained plutonium because they were using a fuel type that was made from both uranium and
plutonium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOX_fuel
[Edited on 8-28-2013 by SFandH]
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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Another scientist's take on things:
http://www.surfingmagazine.com/blogs/the-scoop-radioactive-p...
Ken Buesseler:The meltdown at ***ushima happened in 2011 and the waves from the tsunami brought radioactive material into the ocean. There were
various other sources from the event which caused even more contamination. It was an unprecedented event for the ocean, so there is every right to be
worried. It’s good to have a healthy amount of concern about radioactivity in the Pacific, but the effects from ***ushima on our coast have been
exaggerated. Certainly, there was an extremely high level of radioactivity right at the site of the disaster. However, the further away you go, the
lower those levels become and they reach a point of insignificance.
When you put milk in your coffee cup and start stirring, you see streaks at first and eventually it all becomes that light color. The ocean behaves in
a similar fashion and the mixing is very well understood. The radioactive isotopes mix with the currents. Those currents slowly move across the
Pacific and they will reach our shores. But the levels will be tens of thousands of times lower that what we found in Japan. They’re already low
enough off the coast of Japan to be safe, but they’re going to be even lower off our coast.
There is no way that the water that you’re surfing in could give you a radioactive dose that would be of any concern. There are already radioactive
atoms in the ocean, but they aren’t dangerous. We have naturally-occurring radionuclides and there are still radionuclides from nuclear weapon
testings in the ‘60s in there. It can be hard for people to understand that it’s already been there, but it has been for decades. And the
radioactivity from ***ushima will cause no significant difference.
The consumption of seafood has raised significant interest. If you eat a contaminated fish, that is a direct dose of radiation and it is of more
concern than external exposure. Japan had to close down a large number of fisheries for this reason. And yes, fish can move out of those contaminated
zones but they rarely do — besides for tuna. And if a tuna was to swim away, the concentration of these cesium isotopes would drastically decrease.
They lose it as they get into cleaner water. In 50 days, a fish will lose half of the cesium it may have picked up off Japan. We must watch out from
thinking that every radioactive atom will kill us. We’re regularly exposed to a number of detrimental things and this one does not create a hazardous
situation.
I don’t work for the power companies. I don’t work for any special groups. We just analyze what we measure and how it compares to other sources and
try to put it into context. We don’t believe that the Pacific Ocean is safe in the sense of being able to ignore what is an unprecedented release of
radioactivity. But I think it’s all been very alarmist and you can blame that on the fear of cancer or bad sci-fi movies from the past.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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It's a fluid situation.  Sorry. Buesseler's solution to pollution is
dilution explanation is correct for us, probably. ***u could slowly get better or quickly get worse. Another earthquake could dramatically worsen the
situation.
I'm amazed that somebody way back when didn't say "Hey that's up-side-down!" when they placed the back-up generators at or below ground level and the
spent fuel tanks on the top floor.
I've lost a lot of confidence in the nuclear industry because of what looks to me to be a giant, fundamental mistake.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
We'll see where Ken Buesseler stands on this in a few years.
But, hey, at least they're getting announcements out quickly now!
Level 3 incident
[Edited on 8-29-2013 by soulpatch] |
Dittos
And excuse me if I have a little concern over something which is a: carcinogen, mutagen and teratogen ... and is persistent in OUR environment for a
very long while and is additive to our daily exposure or background levels of ionizing radiation .... think DDT, it was diluted too ...
Don't believe the FDA will register a product which has anyone of these three properties and to a very large extent all "products" which were and/or
are found to have these abilities are removed from products used to "make" what we "want" and "need"
Never thought for a minute this was acutely toxic to anything, other than those entities in the "immediate" area of the "site"
(with exceptions noted)
But, I've not ruled out Godzilla, at this time
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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http://news.yahoo.com/japan-fund-ice-wall-stop-reactor-leaks...
 we're in
trouble now....
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Not sure the "ice wall" will help with the Olympics in 2020 .... this should prove interesting
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