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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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This is getting ridiculous.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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You are saying I'm talking BS about if you don't like it go home, so here I am trying to listen as what we can do to change the system and you don't
like that either. Monoloco might have some good suggestions. | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
This is getting ridiculous. |
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative,
abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has
rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many
people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly
sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you. |
Mexico says it's respects the Mexican Constitution, and I have already heard from other people who live in Rosarito, and they say they have a giat 30'
x30 " poster in the Rosarito police department for Americans. The poster says that if you're American and arrested you have a right to call the
American consulate, and I'm also told Rosarito police respect people's human and Constitutional rights as well as they can.
But police are human beings too, and if this women is going off the rail, that she just about admitted when she was first put in prison. She just
isn't going to be able to make any calls, until she calms down. I'm sorry, when you are arrested in the US or Mexico, the police don't just hand you
the phone to call your consulate. ( not that the phone call going to help out over minor problems) They are going to put you in a padded room, until
you calm down, and aren't a threat to yourself, others, and the community.
You're only getting one side of the story, and that's the woman's side, and even she admitted a judge came to her jail cell. Obviously the Judge
determined he was going to give her a little more time out, and she may have had her day in court before a judge right there, and therefore her
Constitutional honored, we of course don't know, because we haven't seen any documents from either side.
What's this about a translator? I bet over 90 percent of the judges speak English in Baja, and a good number of the police speak English. This women,
although might have poor speaking Spanish skills, probably knows more Spanish than she lets on, she was able to put a few Spanish sentences together,
and that would indicate she probably knows more Spanish than she claims.
Frankly a lot of things she was talking about wasn't credible, and she seems to really seems to be suffering from a lot of paranoids thoughts of
getting raped, getting drugged and thinking the police department is going to do bad things to her, when in reality they probably wanted her to be
quiet, and start acting sane. She was so paranoid of getting raped, she had thoughts of biting off Mexican cops penises!
Monoloco wrote: because this could just as easily happen to you.
I guess so if you go into a bi-polar rage, accusing the police of everything, and order them to do what you say,although you don't speak the local
language, and you tell the cops to go chase the bad guys, and plug this guys bullet holes with your fingers. And then when you are arrested you put
up a fight against the police in prison by kicking, hitting, and screaming!
Yeah, I guess this could happen to anyone.
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Really? and who would you go to to complain? | Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So what are you going to do about it Monoloco? | Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative,
abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has
rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many
people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly
sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you. |
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Well, I don't live any where near Rosarito so probably nothing, but if it happened to a member of my community, myself and many
others here would be standing up for Gretchen and demanding answers of why she was treated so poorly. I certainly wouldn't be making excuses for the
inhuman treatment she received. |
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One thing I have learned from
living here is that the authorities don't appreciate bad press, here in Todos Santos the local economy depends on foreign residents and tourists, so
when there is a problem it is fairly easy to get the mayor and the governor to listen to the concerns of the foreign residents. The ministerio publico
has been replaced twice here in the last year due mainly to complaints from the foreign residents about poor performance. If enough people make noise
about it, maybe the next person will be treated better, if nobody complains, nothing will change. It's imperative that foreigners are at least given
their right to contact their consul when arrested, the fact that Gretchen wasn't, is a clear violation of international law, and should not be taken
lightly.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You are saying I'm talking BS about if you don't like it go home, so here I am trying to listen as what we can do to change the system and you don't
like that either. |
First....you get rid of Mordita. Then, the cartels.
Now...fix the economy and bring back tourism.
Only then will you be prepared to change the legal system. 
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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Well dressed?
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I know this is a minor thing to bring up, but it repeats itself. She also claims the alleged shooter was a well dressed weight lifter
who just didn't lift circuit gym weights, but rather he lifted the barbells and must have did squats for those well developed legs.
If you saw the picture of the shooting suspect, he has a big gut, and he is out of shape! ( I could see the police looking for a well dressed muscle
man, and it turns out the suspect didn't fit her description at all)
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe] |
This is part of something posted on Talk Baja:
Apparently the surfer was changing out of his wetsuit and was naked in front of the Lifeguard's wife- and she called him. The Surfer
and lifeguard got into an argument about it and the next day the El Acapulco guy came back and killed him. Nothing to do with lifeguarding. Just
street-chatter of course.
Bob Durrell
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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She says she fought off police attempts to place her in a jail cell for 40+ min., and all she had was a small cut on her foot, I think if I was
battling police for 40 min., I might have arms cut and bruised and maybe some face or head injuries....
I can understand her reasoning for not drinking the opened half full water bottle, but 2 episodes later when she explains she can not eat the rice
provided with her hands because they are still covered in dried blood, I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of
water....
I hear the whales song
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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1. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations
The right to consular access is guaranteed under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations,2 a multilateral treaty signed by over 100 countries,
including the United States. You may also have this right under a bilateral (two-party) treaty between the United States and your country of
nationality. Article 36(1) of the Vienna Convention reads as follows:
(1) consular officers shall be free to communicate with nationals of the sending State and to have access to them. Nationals of the sending State
shall have the same freedom with respect to communication with and access to consular officers of the sending State;
(2) if he so requests, the competent authorities of the receiving State shall, without delay, inform the consular post of the sending State if, within
its consular district, a national of that State is arrested or committed to prison or to custody pending trial or is detained in any other manner. Any
communication addressed to the consular post by the person arrested, in prison, custody or detention shall also be forwarded by the said authorities
without delay. The said authorities shall inform the person concerned without delay of his rights under this sub-paragraph;
(3) consular officers shall have the right to visit a national of the sending State who is in prison, custody or detention, to converse and correspond
with him and to arrange for his legal representation. They shall also have the right to visit any national of the sending State who is in prison,
custody or detention in their district in pursuance of a judgment. Nevertheless, consular officers shall refrain from taking action on behalf of a
national who is in prison, custody or detention if he expressly opposes such action.3
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
She says she fought off police attempts to place her in a jail cell for 40+ min., and all she had was a small cut on her foot, I think if I was
battling police for 40 min., I might have arms cut and bruised and maybe some face or head injuries....
I can understand her reasoning for not drinking the opened half full water bottle, but 2 episodes later when she explains she can not eat the rice
provided with her hands because they are still covered in dried blood, I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of
water.... |
I say the Rosarito police showed great restraint. If this happened with the US border patrol, or the Fullerton police department in California, they
probably would have beat the crazed women to death.
What is she doing fighting anyway? She is a older women, going up against a gang of strong men cops? She couldn't possibly win, no matter how she far
she flies off the handle. Her paranoia about the Rosarito police are not facts, but her own paranoid thoughts. She has no business bringing up
stories about other prisons inmates telling her she is probably going to be raped in prison for fighting back. From looking at her video, that's looks
like a very remote possibility especially since she puts up such a good fight and acts crazy as all hell over attempts to have her jailed! I have no
doubt she would try to bite it off!
The not drinking an unopened bottle in Mexico, is something I hear about all the time. It's just common paranoid thoughts from a lot of Americans in
Mexico. The truth is Americans should worry less about getting drugged, and they should pay more attention to getting themselves drunk, which is a
far more common problem than getting a date rape drugged spiked in your drink. I have busted a few drunks on other sites over this, where they
claimed they were drugged more than three times, but what really probably happened is this person fell into a drunk stupor more than three times, and
he was robbed while drunk and asleep.
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13047
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaLuna
It's good to get other's opinions, it allows us to see other perspectives and not be so dug into our own. After reading these posts I might think
twice about doing that now in Mexico. Sad though that as fellow human beings we might have to think twice of what the negative consequences could be
if we did help another fellow human being in Mexico. |
Yes, its very sad to think we must think twice about helping people but unfortunately that IS a reality of living in Mexico. I have been here for
around 20 years and am still learning what and what is not acceptable here.
I learned that you will get into BIG trouble if you move a body after death...or if you are helping someone and they die in your car/house etc. So one
must think about these things when confronted by a situation like this.
For example it is illegal to even argue loudly in public( let alone with the policia)..I figure in hopes of preventing escalation of things in a hot
blooded culture. But I thought that in the event of an arrest, the police are obligated to provide a translator..I used to get called all the time in
Guerrero Negro to come in and translate for the cops. I'm sure there are lots of english speaking people in Rosarito that could have been called which
leads me to believe that there was some sort of cover up/corruption issue here. Like Baja Luna said, they may have just wanted to get rid of her for
awhile....this is also a sad reality. Whatever the reason, her human rights were violated and I hope she takes her case to the human rights branch
there to be investigated.
Gretchen has only lived here a short time and is obviously compassionate albeit emotional...so one cant blame her for not knowing what was culturally
acceptable in this situation.
I wonder if she will stay in baja after this
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of water.... |
It would be a good time to be resourceful.
I was in an Ensenada cell awaiting deportation and there was some guy with a killer case of GI distress. The toilet was a hole in the ground and no
such thing as TP.
Around that time, the human rights groups had convinced the city that they should start feeding the inmates something, which turned out to be a bowl
of water soup and some old tortillas...still somewhat pliable.
The guy with the "runs' asked me if I had some TP, which I didn't, so I handed him a half dozen of the tortillas and told him to use these.
He looked at the tortillas...then at me like I was nuts, but did what he had to do.
It worked fine.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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¿An Oxymarooon?
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I have no doubt if this women acted up in the US that she too would have been arrested and held 72 hours for some kind of psychiatric evaluation. Her
screams for Constitutional rights would have been ignored too.
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She may have, however, been able to clean herself and been fed.
| Quote: |
Does this sound like a normal rational women Dennis? |
A what??? |
Now Dennis...........
I remember seeing a video of an "individual" named Rodney King, that would not obey cops. Mexicans have a name for people that antagonize cops...
"Piñata"
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Wow and she is a Christian artist. Well, BajaRat I never claimed to be a devout Christian but I don't think I would say what Joe quoted her saying
here, I come from the East Coast and my Dad was from Brooklyn so I did pick up some favorite East Coast quotes, but never did say that even to any man
I was mad at. From what I understand she is around 40 years old, I guess Joe considers that "old". She also considers herself beautiful and able to
go from rugged to formal in a moment's notice.
Here is her web page:
http://bajaartists.com/gretchen-m-smith/
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
She says she fought off police attempts to place her in a jail cell for 40+ min., and all she had was a small cut on her foot, I think if I was
battling police for 40 min., I might have arms cut and bruised and maybe some face or head injuries....
I can understand her reasoning for not drinking the opened half full water bottle, but 2 episodes later when she explains she can not eat the rice
provided with her hands because they are still covered in dried blood, I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of
water.... |
I say the Rosarito police showed great restraint. If this happened with the US border patrol, or the Fullerton police department in California, they
probably would have beat the crazed women to death.
What is she doing fighting anyway? She is a older women, going up against a gang of strong men cops? She couldn't possibly win, no matter how she far
she flies off the handle. Her paranoia about the Rosarito police are not facts, but her own paranoid thoughts. She has no business bringing up
stories about other prisons inmates telling her she is probably going to be raped in prison for fighting back. From looking at her video, that's looks
like a very remote possibility especially since she puts up such a good fight and acts crazy as all hell over attempts to have her jailed! I have no
doubt she would try to bite it off!
The not drinking an unopened bottle in Mexico, is something I hear about all the time. It's just common paranoid thoughts from a lot of Americans in
Mexico. The truth is Americans should worry less about getting drugged, and they should pay more attention to getting themselves drunk, which is a
far more common problem than getting a date rape drugged spiked in your drink. I have busted a few drunks on other sites over this, where they
claimed they were drugged more than three times, but what really probably happened is this person fell into a drunk stupor more than three times, and
he was robbed while drunk and asleep.
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe] |
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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It appears to me that some posters here are enjoying tearing this woman down. Her only sin was fighting with police whose credibiliy is questioned by
most anyone who follows the history of that organization.
Anyone with half a brain knows that these posts are potentially forever on the internet. I quess you wouldn't mind your grandkids reading some of
this.
Rant over.
Ken
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Rant over.
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And appreciated.
People here, trying to sound like they have some effing insight as to what "really" happened behind closed doors....it's beyond ridiculous.
I don't know...they don't know....and probably never will.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Rant over.
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And appreciated.
People here, trying to sound like they have some effing insight as to what "really" happened behind closed doors....it's beyond ridiculous.
I don't know...they don't know....and probably never will. |
True, but the one thing that is clear is that
holding someone incommunicado for 72 hours, without charges, and basic needs, is beyond egregious.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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I agree, Ken.
Character assassination is not cool. And questioning her integrity of a woman nobody knows who was just expressing HER truth and how she saw things go
down, and was just trying to be a good citizen in helping a dying man. She admitted she was bi-polar, but I don't see how that has anything to do with
her being questionable in her integrity...so what if she is bi-polar?...does that lessen her credibility? Bi-polar people can be good witnesses ya
know, they can tell the truth from THEIR perspective, and just because she is bi-polar does not mean she might be schizophrenic, GEEZ. And so what if
she is schizophrenic, does that make her story less true? I always go by my gut feeling with people, from the get-go when she came onto the scene at
BN to say she had an encounter with Gary, I felt she was honest. Give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise! Tearing a woman to
shreds because she told HER truth, is really so unfair. And then saying she was "paranoid" of being raped in a jail in Mexico, that was soooo uncalled
for.....of course she was worried about that...she IS a woman Helllooooo I would have been FREAKED out about being raped too, what woman wouldn't have
been? She is a woman alone, surrounded by a bunch of shady men who have proven they are unprofessional by raping another woman while she was in that
jail... you betcha I would have been one freaked out woman too. Excuse me...the possibility of rape is NOT paranoia, it is real, it happens every day
of every minute, in every country, and it is not to be minimized, sorry but that really upset me. I will stand up for any of my Sisters, American
Mexican white brown or black bi-polar or not, in any country, who are in a situation such as this and shares her inner most fear of being raped in a
jail in Mexico or anywhere. She had every right to fear being raped.
Gretchen, if ya ever come on these boards again, email me, I would love to see your art and buy you lunch! Stay strong, girl!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
True, but the one thing that is clear is that holding someone incommunicado for 72 hours, without charges, and basic needs, is beyond egregious.
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That is not crystal clear, monoamigo. It's no better than purported.
We can't go to war on unsubstantiated facts. The accuser has to clearly point the finger. We can't do that in her absence.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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I think we can all agree that what happened was a cluster F...K and some one died and others were abused for whatever reason. It probably would
take a United Nations Human Rights Investigation to find out what happened and who needs to be helped and who needs to be shamed.
Lesson I learned from this is do not freak out...stay calm, back off. Oh that is what I have always done in the presence of guns.
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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well said, redmesa!
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