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Author: Subject: EL NIÑO/SOUTHERN OSCILLATION (ENSO) DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION
bledito
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[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 07:40 PM


Americans use large quantities of water inside their homes. The average family of four can use 400 gallons of water every day, and, on average, approximately 70 percent of that water is used indoors.


The bathroom is the largest consumer of indoor water. The toilet alone can use 27 percent of household water. Almost every activity or daily routine that happens in the home bathroom uses a large quantity of water.

For example:

•Older toilets use between 3.5 and 7 gallons of water per flush. However, WaterSense labeled toilets require 75 to 80 percent less water.
•A leaky toilet can waste about 200 gallons of water every day.
•A bathroom faucet generally runs at 2 gallons of water per minute. By turning off the tap while brushing your teeth or shaving, a person can save more than 200 gallons of water per month.
Outside the bathroom, there are many opportunities to save water. Here are some common water efficiency measures, along with a few solutions to those problems you may not have known existed:

•High-efficiency washing machines can conserve large amounts of water. Traditional models use between 27 and 54 gallons of water per load, but new, energy- and water-conserving models (front-loading or top-loading, non-agitator ones) use less than 27 gallons per load.
•Washing the dishes with an open tap can use up to 20 gallons of water, but filling the sink or a bowl and closing the tap saves 10 of those gallons.
•Keeping a pitcher of water in the refrigerator saves time and water instead of running the tap until it gets cold.
•Not rinsing dishes prior to loading the dishwasher could save up to 10 gallons per load.
WaterSense, a partnership program sponsored by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, seeks to help families and businesses realize that they can reduce water use by 20 to 30 percent by doing just a few simple things, such as upgrading to higher quality, more efficient products. For more information, visit www.epa.gov/watersense.

be a part of the solution.
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Bajaboy
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[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 09:33 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
Bajaboy,

Holy Mole, who the heck in B.A. was "wasting water"? The cannery? Seems to be a tad lacking in lawns and water slides around here...


No there is no wasting of water....the over flowing town pila makes a wonderful stream behind my casita....we also enjoy the little ponds just before town from the leaking water pipes....nope David no one was caught "borrowing" water from neighbors either after the meters went in....:light:
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Skipjack Joe
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[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 10:59 PM


There have been a number of posts written here about LA's lawns and swimming pools, even drinking water, using much of the state's water. But I suspect that water usage by the southland pales compared to what the agriculture in the central valley uses. I believe that the snowfall without that agribusiness would easily provide water for the mass of humanity in the southland.

Recently we drove to Portland via hwy 5 where I saw miles and miles of fertile rainsoaked earth that supported virtually no agriculture. We saw miles and miles of pastureland primarily for sheep as far as I could tell. So I'm wondering - why does a state that has great environment for agriculture seem to grow nothing while another with marginal water availability grow, what, 20% of the nation's produce?
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BajaLuna
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 12:11 AM


Skipjack Joe: SUN! Higher temperatures for longer periods of time. People want their melons and tomatoes gosh darn it, something we who live more north don't grow very well because of our short growth season and lack of heat for a long enough period of time. Big Agri can plant and turn over more often in Central Cali and Baja as well. And while they are at it because of the turn over they completely strip the soil and hence our food of it's nutrients, but that's a whole other subject, lol!

Yes, let's utilize that fallow land along I-5 for our cooler crops and ones that don't need a long growth time...lettuce, spinach, kale, chard, peas etc. and also farm the thirsty food plants such as cabbage etc in the fertile rain soaked earth in the northern states. Cabbage and other brassicas do very well in the not so blazing sun and in fact bolt with too much blazing sun...and they need lots of water taboot!

Let's farm more smarter and go WITH nature and the climates in our respective States and Regions!!! But then again what are we thinking...that would just make too much sense, LOL!




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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 03:17 AM


But Skipjack Joe, if they took the water from Big Agribusiness in Central Cali to supply water for the people then what would the people eat? The Mid-West alone can't supply ALL the corn laden, wheat laden, soy laden, and GMO laden franken-food!

I'm like you...I see a lot of wasted fertile land in non-drought places that could be growing food and I just scratch my head.

I think the percentage is much higher for produce grown in Cali?

DavidK...wow finally we agree on something....you are sooo right, drip systems are awesome and the way to go! My garden has never done better then when we put ours in! Wow what a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in the quality of our food, the yield, and the overall health of our plants, we are blown away! Uses so much less water! This Spring we are putting one in in the greenhouse too! I'm a believer!

Bledito: excellent post...thanks so much for the info and tips!
YES, let's be a part of the solution! I'm in!

He who controls the water/food will control the masses!

Self-Sustainable living, it's not just a fade, it's a movement, it's the future!

heck ya don't need to live on acreage to grow food...people are getting rid of their lawns, doing rainwater catch, and are growing enough food for their families on their city lots in the middle of downtown L.A. among other major cities!

Go voluntarily in the conservation of water and living more self-sustainable or do it a kickin' and a screamin'...either way it's all going to come down to that, IMHO.




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Skipjack Joe
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 07:09 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna

heck ya don't need to live on acreage to grow food...people are getting rid of their lawns, doing rainwater catch, and are growing enough food for their families on their city lots in the middle of downtown L.A. among other major cities!



How is that going to work for those living in apt buildings?

I don't know about all of this. The homes in San Francisco have no lawns and virtually no yards as well. Homes are now built to have maximum square footage on the least amount of real estate. I'm not sure how realistic is this idea.
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David K
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 08:26 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
Volcanoes -

Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year.

Scientific fact. :smug:


CO2 isn't all that volcanoes emit... why stop there?

BUT, CO2 is how plants breathe... No CO2 than no life on earth.

A massive volcano eruption doesn't happen every year, but when it does... the earth is affected for many years, putting us in climatic changes, even... A volcano (like Krakatoa) can... Americans driving cars or Ford trucks can't... ;) Don't feel guilty and don't feed Al Gore! :light:

Time for a Baja trip perhaps?




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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 09:19 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
Volcanoes -

Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year.

Scientific fact. :smug:


CO2 isn't all that volcanoes emit... why stop there?

BUT, CO2 is how plants breathe... No CO2 than no life on earth.

A massive volcano eruption doesn't happen every year, but when it does... the earth is affected for many years, putting us in climatic changes, even... A volcano (like Krakatoa) can... Americans driving cars or Ford trucks can't... ;) Don't feel guilty and don't feed Al Gore! :light:

Time for a Baja trip perhaps?
The fact is there are a lot of people making money from both sides of the climate change debate. How much has Christopher Monckton raked in from the Koch brothers, Exxon Mobil and others with his junk science?



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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 09:30 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna

heck ya don't need to live on acreage to grow food...people are getting rid of their lawns, doing rainwater catch, and are growing enough food for their families on their city lots in the middle of downtown L.A. among other major cities!



How is that going to work for those living in apt buildings?

I don't know about all of this. The homes in San Francisco have no lawns and virtually no yards as well. Homes are now built to have maximum square footage on the least amount of real estate. I'm not sure how realistic is this idea.


I think BajaLuna is on to something. SkipJack is right, it certainly is not a viable idea for many who don't have access to open land, but it sure will work for many, many others. We supply vegatables for several of our neighbors out of a 12' by 8' open garden, and small 8 by 12 foot greenhouse that is self-contained with heater and auto-drip system and elec. blower exhaust. It's pretty easy, and very inexpensive, and sooooo water saving. (and it is fun) We got most of our supplies at garage sales, and the greenhouse from Harbor Freight for $200 on sale. Everything is automatic, and we can be gone for a month and the stuff just keeps growing while we are gone.

Barry
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 10:04 AM


For Christ's sake I use freakin' PLANTERS. San Francisco's problem is NOT water nor is it "lack of space". It's a climate fit for lettuce and root crops. Study the JAPANESE way of INTENSIVE gardening.



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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 10:30 AM
Feed Me


Grow your own food?

I don't know.... Just seems risky. What if things go wrong?



[Edited on 3-13-2014 by Skipjack Joe]
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 10:55 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
Volcanoes -

Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year.

Scientific fact. :smug:


CO2 isn't all that volcanoes emit... why stop there?

BUT, CO2 is how plants breathe... No CO2 than no life on earth.

A massive volcano eruption doesn't happen every year, but when it does... the earth is affected for many years, putting us in climatic changes, even... A volcano (like Krakatoa) can... Americans driving cars or Ford trucks can't... ;) Don't feel guilty and don't feed Al Gore! :light:

Time for a Baja trip perhaps?


Volcanoes tend to cool the climate, at least short term---most of the outflow is sulphur compounds, not so much CO2.
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 11:00 AM


FYI, this is evolving into a different discussion than how it began, so I've started a new post on US/MX water, growth of agriculture, and what that means for long term water transfers btwn US/MX via exported produce.

I hope you'll shift over there- this post has gotten quite long




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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 11:02 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
.........

Recently we drove to Portland via hwy 5 where I saw miles and miles of fertile rainsoaked earth that supported virtually no agriculture. We saw miles and miles of pastureland primarily for sheep as far as I could tell. So I'm wondering - why does a state that has great environment for agriculture seem to grow nothing while another with marginal water availability grow, what, 20% of the nation's produce?


It really is about the economics for the farmer. For example, a farmer in the Imperial Valley will have multiple cuttings in their alfalfa fields because the ground is fertile, the sun shines all the time ---- all it needs is the water from the Colorado. In other areas, they might get one cutting, two if they are lucky. So watering the desert makes economic sense to the farmer.

The absolute best garden we had was when we lived in the Central Valley --- things grow quickly and it is a fairly long growing season. The soil and climate were perfect for growing. In contrast, the only way we could have a garden of any sort when we lived in the very, very rainy Crescent City was with semi greenhouses and even that was difficult. Farmers chose the areas that will be most productive --- economics
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Barry A.
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 11:19 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
.........

Recently we drove to Portland via hwy 5 where I saw miles and miles of fertile rainsoaked earth that supported virtually no agriculture. We saw miles and miles of pastureland primarily for sheep as far as I could tell. So I'm wondering - why does a state that has great environment for agriculture seem to grow nothing while another with marginal water availability grow, what, 20% of the nation's produce?


It really is about the economics for the farmer. For example, a farmer in the Imperial Valley will have multiple cuttings in their alfalfa fields because the ground is fertile, the sun shines all the time ---- all it needs is the water from the Colorado. In other areas, they might get one cutting, two if they are lucky. So watering the desert makes economic sense to the farmer.

The absolute best garden we had was when we lived in the Central Valley --- things grow quickly and it is a fairly long growing season. The soil and climate were perfect for growing. In contrast, the only way we could have a garden of any sort when we lived in the very, very rainy Crescent City was with semi greenhouses and even that was difficult. Farmers chose the areas that will be most productive --- economics


So true!!! Farmer's in the Imperial Valley of extreme SoCal sometimes (often?) get 5 cuttings of hay per year.

barry
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 01:21 PM


Kern doesn't miss by much ... on cuttings

Remember when Lancaster used to be the "best" leaf one could get in CA ... high desert with clean air ... used to put out some really good stuff

These guys keep an ear to the ground so to speak ..

http://agalert.com/archive/?series=californiawatercrisis




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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 02:53 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
Volcanoes -

Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year.

Scientific fact. :smug:


CO2 isn't all that volcanoes emit... why stop there?

BUT, CO2 is how plants breathe... No CO2 than no life on earth.

A massive volcano eruption doesn't happen every year, but when it does... the earth is affected for many years, putting us in climatic changes, even... A volcano (like Krakatoa) can... Americans driving cars or Ford trucks can't... ;) Don't feel guilty and don't feed Al Gore! :light:

Time for a Baja trip perhaps?


Volcanoes tend to cool the climate, at least short term---most of the outflow is sulphur compounds, not so much CO2.


Thanks for your time Steve... facts are good.




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lol.gif posted on 3-13-2014 at 03:09 PM
climate scientists that disagree with my politics are liars


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Thanks for your time Steve... facts are good.


and if the facts are inconvenient truths, then declare them lies :lol::lol::lol:

climate scientists that disagree with my politics are obviously liars!
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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 03:30 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Thanks for your time Steve... facts are good.


and if the facts are inconvenient truths, then declare them lies :lol::lol::lol:

climate scientists that disagree with my politics are obviously liars!


Man caused global climate change or man able to fix climate change is the LIE.

Weather changes, always has and always will. Warming trends are followed by a cooling trend... draught is followed by rain... it really IS that simple. Learn to live with what earth is, a dynamic, wild and also peaceful planet. Taking money from working people to pretend to fix something that can't be fixed, nor is even broke is just sad.

[Edited on 3-13-2014 by David K]




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[*] posted on 3-13-2014 at 03:38 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Don Jorge
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
So true!!! Farmer's in the Imperial Valley of extreme SoCal sometimes (often?) get 5 cuttings of hay per year.
barry

More like 8+ cuttings per season and green chop or sheep grazing the winter growth. However, irrigated alfalfa in the Imperial Valley uses around 6 acre feet of water per acre to grow it. By comparison, we use less than 2 acre feet of water per acre to grow organic strawberries in so cal.

IV growers pay around $40 per acre foot for Imperial Irrigation District (Colorado River). We are paying close to $1400 per acre foot for MWD water.

Eventually water will be traded on the boards and will flow to the highest bidder. Already IV water district sells lots of water to San Diego for around $250 an acre foot. Negotiations continue between the two parties to deliver more for more.

Here is a you tube video on strawberries and water we participated in a few years back with Siemens. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgIweWxHSE

We still farm the same piece of soil today but we know the days are numbered for such small farms as ours in urban areas if water costs are not stabilized.

Regarding drought and ENSO, John Steinbeck, 1952, East of Eden: “And it never failed that during the dry years the people forgot about the rich years, and during the wet years they lost all memory of the dry years. It was always that way.”

Yep, always that way.


I think few people in Southern California have any idea as to the power and importance of the Imperial Valley Irrigation District and how it impacts them. Shoot, when we lived out there, it was very common for people in San Diego to not even known where the Imperial Valley was located.
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