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Cliffy
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Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  | | Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
My question still remains - What do we do (if we go total renewable wind and solar which is the current Holy Grail) at night when the wind doesn't
blow?
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cliffy,
nobody has said we are going ALL solar and wind.
the wind does blow at night. (p.s. populations generally use less power at night relative to day)
most populated areas are on a grid, a grid powered by multiple generating sources, if one generating source has low output then other generating
sources fill the gap. |
"cliffy,
nobody has said we are going ALL solar and wind."
OK if we now admit that going 100% renewable won't work just how much more renewable do we need? Right now we have about 15% of our energy by
solar/wind. Do we want 4 times that much to reach over 50% generation by renewables? If so who's land does that get put on? Is all that land conducive
to wind or solar generation? Are we OK with the flora and fauna cost of doing that? This hasn't even been broached yet by the proponents of
renewables. I mentioned it many weeks ago. Why sidestep it?
"the wind does blow at night. (p.s. populations generally use less power at night relative to day)"
The sun is a major factor in the wind blowing - Fact not fiction! One only has to fly over wind farms in the early morning hours and then again in the
afternoon to actually see the affect of solar gain on the earth surface and the action of the wind generators. Go to wunderground and select any city
you want and view the wind prediction graph to see how the sun affects the forecast wind speed every day. At night the wind dies down most every day
thereby rendering the wind mills ineffective,
Find me the information that I seem unable to find after more than a decade of looking, showing wind generation power output by the hour 24/7 for any
wind generator you want. I have never found that information but I will bet it is tracked by the power company owning the wind farm. They just don't
let that information out. WHY?
"most populated areas are on a grid, a grid powered by multiple generating sources, if one generating source has low output then other generating
sources fill the gap."
You have described exactly how the power grid works and why fossil fueled power plants will never go away. We CAN'T get rid of them period. Glad to
see we have finally made some progress here on the forum.
So the hyper rhetoric about going solar and wind is just scare tactics. I have no problem with building renewables if those renewables go along with a
reasonable pace that is financially sound for the population to accept AND their problems are solved before they are built. Right now we have the cart
before the horse. We mandate renewables with the statement that "time will bring the solutions to the future problems they produce". Solve the cost
issue and the recycling issues first then we can move forward with PARTIAL renewable generation. No issue with that.
Renewables can't provide total power to the grid reliably as I have mentioned before.
With that in mind, I believe we could also(where possible) transfer over to natural gas as a power source for generation with a huge decrease in
emitted gases compared to the coal we now use. That would kill the coal industry here in the USA UNLESS we allow it to be shipped to the bigger users
of coal- CHINA and INDIA but then they use more coal making our efforts to lower emissions globally totally ineffective overall- do we see another
problem here?
Going to natural gas would be a big step toward your goal (here in the USA). BUT that meets with hysterical opposition also and in the global picture
will make no progress what so ever.
Question- Why did the Energy Secretary when questioned before Congress, refuse to answer just how much, in percentage, our going total renewable would
affect the global atmosphere?
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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RFClark
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So if most of the old gas guzzlers continue to live on some minus their emission control systems the net pollution decrease worldwide is less than
“0”!
This article is about Africa but anyone watching the inbound traffic to Baja California will see a solid line of the same old cars towing other old
cars waiting to cross the border.
The pollution is just “exported” far away where it’s more difficult to see not eliminated.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/21/africa/west-africa-benin-...
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | So if most of the old gas guzzlers continue to live on some minus their emission control systems the net pollution decrease worldwide is less than
“0”!
This article is about Africa but anyone watching the inbound traffic to Baja California will see a solid line of the same old cars towing other old
cars waiting to cross the border.
The pollution is just “exported” far away where it’s more difficult to see not eliminated.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/21/africa/west-africa-benin-... |
Exporting old cars to mexuco. It’ like exporting retired people to mexico 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Cliffy
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Its a political game being played for votes unless you are willing to let an elite global cabal dictate what every country in the world will do.
Without a total global commitment small efforts will yield nothing in a global perspective. And a "global perspective" is the current mantra!
Do you think for a minute that all those elites in DAVOS will give up their big corporate jets in the name of "Climate Change"?
Its time to wake up and smell the roses!
The earth survived just fine when the average temperature and CO2 levels were much higher than they are now.
The earth has a great propensity to heal itself.
Only "Chicken Little" thinks the end is near.
The sky is not falling.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark |
anyone watching the inbound traffic to Baja California will see a solid line of the same old cars towing other old cars waiting to cross the border.
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I cross the San Ysidro border frequently during the summer. The only cars I've seen towed south are race cars. I'm pretty sure you can't tow a junker
or any other passenger car into Mexico. Mexico authorities will stop you.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
The earth survived just fine when the average temperature and CO2 levels were much higher than they are now.
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You keep endlessly repeating this obviousness, as if you're telling us something we don't know. It's irrelevant. Yes, the planet will keep spinning in
the universe, it just won't support life and the climate change will cause untold suffering on the way, as it already is, to the extinction of human
and animal life.
You obviously don't care about that because you're an old man who won't be around long enough for it to affect you, likely have no grandchildren, or
none you care about.
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SFandH
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One of my biggest concerns about atmospheric warming, big because it may directly affect me and most probably will my descendants, is the northbound
climate migration out of Central American tropics as crops fail, daily temperatures rise, and storms become more destructive.
I bet the current border crisis pales compared to what's going to happen in the coming decades.
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surabi
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For all of you man-made climate change deniers, and those who espouse the ridiculous notion that there is no point in individuals reducing the things
we do that pollute, all you have to do is look at how rapidly and how much pollution stats dropped worldwide during Covid lockdowns.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1099092
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by surabi]
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | For all of you man-made climate change deniers, and those who espouse the ridiculous notion that there is no point in individuals reducing the things
we do that pollute, all you have to do is look at how rapidly and how much pollution stats dropped worldwide during Covid lockdowns.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1099092
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by surabi] |
Many have thought they can out wit Mother Nature, none have succeeded.
"Carbon pollution from California’s 2020 wildfires erased 16 years of the state’s greenhouse gas emission cuts, according to a new UCLA study."
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by JZ]
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | For all of you man-made climate change deniers, and those who espouse the ridiculous notion that there is no point in individuals reducing the things
we do that pollute, all you have to do is look at how rapidly and how much pollution stats dropped worldwide during Covid lockdowns.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1099092
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by surabi] |
2 years of forest fires in California wiped out 21 years of C02 savings by the govt.
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Non-sequitor. Deflecting again. It's like saying it's a waste of time and effort to ever clean your house, because it's just going to get dirty
again. Or that there's no point in keeping your vehicle well-maintained because someone could run into you and total it.
And the increasing proliference and intensity of forest fires is directly related to man-made climate change, not just "mother nature".
Trying to mitigate and solve worldwide issues like climate change and pandemics requires lateral, not linear, thinking, co-operation, caring about
something larger than oneself, and a certain amount of personal sacrifice or inconvenience, obviously none of which is a part of your mind-set.
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by surabi]
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | [/rquote]
"Carbon pollution from California’s 2020 wildfires erased 16 years of the state’s greenhouse gas emission cuts, according to a new UCLA study."
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by JZ] |
It's a good thing that CA reduced its CO2 emissions. Otherwise, the CO2 due to wildfires would be in addition to the CO2 CA didn't eliminate. The
situation would be worse.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ | [/rquote]
"Carbon pollution from California’s 2020 wildfires erased 16 years of the state’s greenhouse gas emission cuts, according to a new UCLA study."
[Edited on 5-22-2023 by JZ] |
It's a good thing that CA reduced its CO2 emissions. Otherwise, the CO2 due to wildfires would be in addition to the CO2 CA didn't eliminate. The
situation would be worse. |
The thing about wildfires is that vegetation grows back, so over decades each individual fire is net zero GHG emissions. So is sort of silly to
evaluate carbon release from vegetation burning without also looking at vegetation growth that sequesters carbon. Perhaps the vegetation Regrowth
removes carbon relatively faster than than old growth vegetation removes carbon, eh?
I suppose they did not teach science and logic at Ohio state
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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RFClark
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There are still lots of cars towing a 2nd car waiting in line at the East Mexicali Commercial crossing.
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RFClark
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Goat,
The world as we know is going to end soon (5 years or 15 years). The wild lands grow back time is 40 - 100 years.
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mtgoat666
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Clarky,
Here in SoCal and baja, the coastal sage scrub grows back much faster than your time frame. Not sure what the biomass rates are for northern
forests…
And perhaps these smart scientists have factored wildfire and vegetation sequestering into their climate models, eh?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
And perhaps these smart scientists have factored wildfire and vegetation sequestering into their climate models, eh? |
Hmmm, these "smart scientists" thought a glacier was going to cover the US by 2000. 
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surabi
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Pretty amusing to be calling out scientists for being a decade or two off in their predictions (a relatively tiny smidgen of time), when you have
nothing to say about your own erroneous predictions, you just go silent about that stuff when proven wrong. Red wave, Kari Lake rockstar, DeSantis
next POTUS? I believe the expression is "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
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RFClark
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Goat,
I Lived in Malibu. There were bad fires every 40 to 80 years. We built a house there after the 80 year fire. We sold it and it burned a few years
ago, about 40 years later. The same for the houses around it.
The ecology of the SM costal range (Malibu) requires fires every 20 - 40 years. 80 years was way too long. The area should be managed better.
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RFClark
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S,
I believe Jesus said “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her”. John 8:7 King James edition.
[Edited on 5-23-2023 by RFClark]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
And perhaps these smart scientists have factored wildfire and vegetation sequestering into their climate models, eh? |
Hmmm, these "smart scientists" thought a glacier was going to cover the US by 2000.
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Half pint,
These scientists managed to finish their phd and get a research position in their chosen field. You went to law school, flunked the bar, and gave up.
Who is the smart one? 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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