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Author: Subject: The palm tree is going two feet under water
Skipjack Joe
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[*] posted on 9-6-2021 at 10:56 PM


If all the ice on Greenland melts the sea level will rise 23 feet.

If all the ice on Antarctica melts it will rise another 200 feet.

How long it will take depends on us. I'm choking on smoke today. At this point I'm wondering if there will be any trees left in Cal/Oregon by then.
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SFandH
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 12:56 PM


Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
There are things I really like about cutting and trimming with battery powered saws, but if you want to do a day's work, they are not yet an acceptable substitute for gas powered saws.

Exactly. Can you imagine logging, or road clearing after a major storm, with an electric saw?

The power-to-weight ratio of a fossil fuel chansaw is pretty amazing, and they run through a heck of a lot less gasoline than the driving a car down to the corner grocery store for soda pop.


There are many variables that go into this, but the following example illustrates the battery weight problem.

A Tesla Model S, 85 Kwh battery pack weighs 1200 pounds. The range is generously 300 miles.

A roughly equivalent gas-powered car would require 12 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. 12 gallons of gas weighs 75 pounds.

So, in this case, 1200 pounds of batteries will do what 75 pounds of gas do.

Or, an electric chain saw with a 100-pound battery pack will do what a gas chain saw with a one-gallon tank (6.3 pounds) does.





[Edited on 10-11-2021 by SFandH]




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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 02:44 PM


Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
There are things I really like about cutting and trimming with battery powered saws, but if you want to do a day's work, they are not yet an acceptable substitute for gas powered saws.

Exactly. Can you imagine logging, or road clearing after a major storm, with an electric saw?

The power-to-weight ratio of a fossil fuel chansaw is pretty amazing, and they run through a heck of a lot less gasoline than the driving a car down to the corner grocery store for soda pop.


There are many variables that go into this, but the following example illustrates the battery weight problem.

A Tesla Model S, 85 Kwh battery pack weighs 1200 pounds. The range is generously 300 miles.

A roughly equivalent gas-powered car would require 12 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. 12 gallons of gas weighs 75 pounds.

So, in this case, 1200 pounds of batteries will do what 75 pounds of gas do.

Or, an electric chain saw with a 100-pound battery pack will do what a gas chain saw with a one-gallon tank (6.3 pounds) does.

[Edited on 10-11-2021 by SFandH]


electric motors weigh much less than equivalent IC engine/transmission. in case of tesla, the 1200 lb battery pack is OK as the car does not have the heavy IC engine and transmission and accessories that are in your fossil fuel vehicle.

i use a small e-chain saw, as well as many other e-tools -- and i have multiple batteries to get me thru a day of yard work.
i do have a gas-powered chain saw, but only rarely need the gasoline beast for large wood. most yard work is smaller diameter branches that e-chain saw handles well.




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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 03:06 PM


Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline; however, plutonium does a good job.:o



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luna negra
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 03:22 PM


For what it's worth, I was a skeptic of an e-saw until I tried the Milwaukee 18V model. Will cut for quite a long time on one battery and don't have to worry about the carbs gumming up and gas lines rotting from gas with ethanol. Highly recommend.
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 03:29 PM


"why don't we just get in the running car!":lol:



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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 03:43 PM


The 12" battery-powered chain saws for sale by Amazon have excellent reviews.



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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 04:07 PM


Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline; however, plutonium does a good job.:o


Apples and oranges. You are comparing weight of liquid fuel to weight of energy storage device.





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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 04:10 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
"why don't we just get in the running car!":lol:


"are you nuts?" :lol:




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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 04:54 PM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline; however, plutonium does a good job.:o


Apples and oranges. You are comparing weight of liquid fuel to weight of energy storage device.

Considering that the Tesla battery can last for 300-600,000 miles, it should be 1200 lbs. of Tesla batteries=30-40,000 lbs. of fuel.




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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 05:43 PM
A couple of things I didn't expect with my e-saw


The electric motor develops torque at lower rpms than gas, so it is able to cut with slower chain speed. Cutting hard dry wood, or limbs at high rpm can generate enough heat to shorten the chain and bar life.

With my e-saw, it seems to me that I am going much longer between sessions of sharpening and adjusting the tension of the bar/chain!

Even with a fully charged battery, and a sharp chain, if I work it too hard it will overheat and shut down until it cools a bit. It doesn't take long to re-set, but it is still annoying. At this point I am not sure if it is the battery or the motor that needs to cool, but if it happens again I will swap a battery right away and report the result.

[Edited on 10-12-2021 by AKgringo]




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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 05:46 PM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline; however, plutonium does a good job.:o


Apples and oranges. You are comparing weight of liquid fuel to weight of energy storage device.



I was making the point you would need a fully charged 100-pound battery pack to do the work of 6.3 pounds of gasoline.

An important consideration when addressing hand-held machinery like chain saws. Which would you prefer to move around to do a day's work in the woods with a chain saw? A gallon of gas or 100 pounds of batteries?

Energy density is joules per kilogram. Period. Both gasoline and lithium-ion batteries can be measured in joules per kilogram.


[Edited on 10-12-2021 by SFandH]




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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 06:11 PM


Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
The electric motor develops torque at lower rpms than gas, so it is able to cut with slower chain speed. Cutting hard dry wood, or limbs at high rpm can generate enough heat to shorten the chain and bar life.



One huge advantage of electric motors, constant/instant torque. This is why railroads use electric motors to drive locomotives with diesel generators to supply the electricity, been using it for over 50-70 years now. Electric car acceleration is incredible, from what I've read. Never even been in a Prius, let alone a Tesla. But, torque from electric motors is real.

Why do you think Ford is using torque as a main selling point to the electric F series? They pull harder than gas or diesel trucks. Selling it right down the alley to truck people. I can pull more than you!!!!

If JZ wasn't a GMC guy, I was hoping he'd get the electric Ford F150 truck and show us all up!!! Come on, JZ, show the Goat, buy (lease) an electric F150! You know you love being the "first kid on the block" to have one.

John

[Edited on 10-12-2021 by John Harper]
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 06:20 PM


So since I can’t comment on the problems that blanket outlawing of small gas motors will cause. I’ll just post this picture! It’s 10/11 we live at 4200’ Computer models are GIGO!

Since I probably can’t use the “S” word either, I’ll leave it to the reader to interpret what they’re looking at!

701B951C-E323-4B40-9015-5D3219104EF6.jpeg - 111kB
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SFandH
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 06:40 PM


Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  



Why do you think Ford is using torque as a main selling point to the electric F series? They pull harder than gas or diesel trucks. Selling it right down the alley to truck people. I can pull more than you!!!!


Part of the electric F-150 Lightning increased torque is used to get it moving.

"The Lightning weighs 6,500 pounds—more than 35 percent more than the gas-powered model. That’s in large part because of an immovable weight at its core: an 1,800-pound battery. Part of that is just the nature of electric vehicles: The Tesla Model 3 weighs 1,000 pounds more than a Honda Civic. The more luxurious Tesla Model S weighs 1,200 pounds more than a Lexus ES 350."

https://slate.com/business/2021/05/ford-f150-lightning-elect...

I'm all for electric vehicles but the battery packs are heavy and will become a huge, HUGE toxic waste issue. Currently, it's cheaper to dig the elements needed to make batteries out of the ground than it is to recycle them.

[Edited on 10-12-2021 by SFandH]




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AKgringo
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[*] posted on 10-11-2021 at 07:18 PM
A few posts are missing


Kind of curious why they were deleted? I can agree that a California law is not exactly a Baja issue, but many of us Nomads will be using some of the gas or electric tools tools being discussed on our trips SOB.



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[*] posted on 10-12-2021 at 07:27 AM


Tesla plaid S
0 to 60. 1.9 seconds
$129K
Sweet jebus!
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Marc
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[*] posted on 10-12-2021 at 07:48 AM


Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
I've been to China about 20 times. The pollution is so bad you can feel it burning your face. Let us know when they sign up for a Green New Deal.



[Edited on 10-15-2021 by Marc]

I have also been to China and SE Asia. Unbelievable pollution. You have to experience it to believe. How about a Green New Deal for those Bozos and leave us alone.
Marc


[Edited on 10-16-2021 by Marc]




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SFandH
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[*] posted on 10-12-2021 at 08:28 AM


Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Currently, it's cheaper to dig the elements needed to make batteries out of the ground than it is to recycle them.

That's really surprising, considering how concentrated they are in batteries. :?:


"Most of the batteries that do get recycled undergo a high-temperature melting-and-extraction, or smelting, process similar to ones used in the mining industry. Those operations, which are carried out in large commercial facilities—for example, in Asia, Europe, and Canada—are energy intensive. The plants are also costly to build and operate and require sophisticated equipment to treat harmful emissions generated by the smelting process. And despite the high costs, these plants don’t recover all valuable battery materials."

https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-re...





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[*] posted on 10-15-2021 at 05:35 AM


I have been loving my Milwaukee esaw. I have 12ah + 8ah batteries I use with it & they seem to last a long time. I haven't used it for super consistent cutting like blocking firewood chunks I've used it primarily for clearing mtn bike trails & they've been badly littered. The saw works fantastic for this as its easier & a bit less messy to pack in my backpack.

Having said all that - the earth, the oceans, the atmosphere is going to do what its going to do whether I or everyone uses an e-anything or not. With all forms of energy there are trade-offs. If our fearless leaders decrying "climate change" ever lead by example I may be more accepting of their rhetoric but so far all I see is the hypocrisy of "rules for thee & not for me"

[Edited on 10-15-2021 by lewmt]
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