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TheColoradoDude
Nomad
Posts: 287
Registered: 2-10-2009
Location: Colorado/San Carlos, Sonora
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Mood: Paz, Amor, y Tacos de Pescado
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This thread reminds me of this verizon customer service call I watched/listened to a few years back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2isSJKntbg
and a check to go with it! 
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Donde esta senor baja cactus on this?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64762
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Donde esta senor baja cactus on this? |
Hi Dah-veed,
Antonio hasn't posted much here in quite awhile... He is spending most of his time in El Rosario trying to keep his two primary businesses running.
Times are hard for most of us self employed folks!
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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timely, in just a few days it is World anti-corruption Day, read about it just a bit of information... this is public sector, not private business,
but there is probably a decent correlation. Canada puts the USA to shame...
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/in_detail/
| Quote: |
2011 Transparency International CPI Report shows 80% of humans live under corrupt government “Corruption” is defined by Transparency
International (TI) as “the abuse of entrusted power for private gain.” Each year TI publishes a “Corruption Perceptions Index” which scores the
world's nations out of ten for their public sector honesty and the just-released 2011 report paints a bleak picture. Only six countries scored 9.0 or
better, and just 49 of the 186 countries assessed in the report scored better than 5.0. Analysis shows more than 80% of human beings on Planet Earth
exist under regimes which score 4.0 or less. December 9 is World Anti-Corruption Day.
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http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/in_detail/
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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more examples of intentional fraud, though we were told by the industry insider this does not happen in the USA... I would really expect someone who
says they know so much to know about these many cases, i am sure the industry news letters highlight these.
http://www.fbi.gov/atlanta/press-releases/2010/at102010c.htm
| Quote: |
United States Attorney Edward Tarver stated, “Thousands of consumers lost millions of dollars in this gas-fraud scheme that also involved the bribery
of public officials. For years, customers of the Cisco stations thought they were getting a deal; instead, they were ripped off at the pump. This case
should serve as warning to would-be fraudsters that if you steal from consumers in this District, you will receive a full tank of justice.”
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http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/SunMart-hit-...
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985 pumps miscalibrated The verdict ended an eight-week trial that had its origins in July 2008 when Texas Department of Agriculture inspectors
launched Operation Spotlight, which tested more than 1,700 pumps at the Texas SunMart stores. Officials said 985 of the pumps were set to dispense
less than a full gallon of gas. State officials also accused the company of sending workers to recalibrate the pumps before state examiners could
reach SunMart locations.
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http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/orgcrm96.pdf
http://watchseries.eu/episode/the_f.b.i._files_s3_e9-68090.h...
FBI agents began investigating New York gas station mogul Gurmeet Dhinsa for gas pump rigging. They learned that he enforced his mob-like operation
with brutal violence.
wiki
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On July 1, 1997, police were called by a man who claimed Dhinsa had threatened him and his family. Later that day, investigators stopped Dhinsa and
searched the car he was driving. When Dhinsa opened the trunk, the police discovered circuit boards for gas pumps
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and if you do not like my style of posting on this subject of gas pump rigging... well electronic vote fraud, i really will not ever quit... i just
do not allow people who have no technological expertise allowing or perpetuating myths that there is no electronic election fraud there without a
different backed up point of view from me. and let the people decide.
That industry too says there is no theft because no one has been caught is their argument... (at least in this gas one people have been caught
with re-chipping)
[Edited on 12-6-2011 by laventana]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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i read ALL the links...
all really old stuff
1996 was about 15 years ago
nothing here states there are
"blackmarket chips" out there
that cheat the public
yes humans cheat...no one would ever dispute that
but remember the thread here is about...
if you buy gas by the liter...do you get more
than of you buy by the peso
and later...
if you but a liter...do you get a liter
if you think your gas station is cheating you...prove it
don't just whine about it
in mulege the gas station on the hiway
sells a liter for a liter
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Yes it does matter how one counts..
| Quote: | Originally posted by TheColoradoDude
This thread reminds me of this verizon customer service call I watched/listened to a few years back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2isSJKntbg
and a check to go with it!
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Spot on ... love the amount in the check as it is in fact correct ... 
[Edited on 12-6-2011 by wessongroup]
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5898
Registered: 7-18-2011
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Laventana, evidence needed.....spent the last 3 days doing inspections at gas stations and everyone laughed at this premise of "chips".
Most usa stations are electronically monitored by the supplier and if there was gas accumulating in their tanks from ripping customers off, they would
know about it and terminate their lease/fuel supply contract and/or send someone out to investigate the discrepancy.
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
Laventana, evidence needed.....spent the last 3 days doing inspections at gas stations and everyone laughed at this premise of "chips".
Most usa stations are electronically monitored by the supplier and if there was gas accumulating in their tanks from ripping customers off, they would
know about it and terminate their lease/fuel supply contract and/or send someone out to investigate the discrepancy. |
You have a great way of providing not one verifiable link to anything you say. They only thing you linked to was your company
that does not do pump inspections for the consumer even at the chip level.
Tell me specifically when you ever checked the chip? and how you did it. the entire procedure... this will be interesting. I asked you for
specifics before and you could not give them. as I found there are only an average of 12 inspectors in each state. and gave you the link. time
for you to actually answer the questions if you know what you are talking about in this area. I have no doubt for your environmental and safety
inspections you know how to comply to what the government is asking for. but this is different..
ok, when was the last time you ever met a person cable of doing a test of the chips in a gas pump. I proved these chips are available. You say you
know what is going on because you are the expert, give me the link to the hundreds of people that actually test specifically for chips and I will
contact a random few... give me the names of specific people in the government that can do this, and their phone numbers I will call ask get to the
bottom of your claims.
I also listed a gas station that was also caught when they had overcharged over $300,000.00 that you just said was basically impossible because your
so called inspections and could never have allowed that in the history of mankind. look at the millions the other stations were caught ripping off.
again with your so called environmental inspections it is impossible... but we are talking millions in some of my links that were recent.
and again even listed they said how easy these pumps are to manipulate with firmware or software to cheat. EXACTLY what I told you, this is a very
basic system, as I said I would just take two and put the inputs parallel and switch on a mis-calibrated one after 5 gallons. Operated by a car or
garage remote control. it really is as simple as that. and if I was going to do it massively I would hire a programmer and have a chip made
instead. You have no clue how easy this is, as one link stated it is simple... you obviously have no electronically qualified engineers working
with you. Even most techs could do this.
By the way talked to a bunch of locals and some programmers and they all are laughing that you think it is not possible ... sarcasm....
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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everything IS possible...
you still don't have ANYTHING that says these
"chips" even exist OR are being used
the 300k fraud was done differently...manually
fraud exists everywhere in every business
but here we are talking about a gas pump
as for the inspectors...
the government contracts out ALOT now
that's the way it is these days
the business has to pay a private company
to prove compliance to laws
haven't you ever talked to someone in India...same thing
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Why bother
He just wants to be argumentative. He has long ago passed the point of providing information. His posts have turned into a rant. The best way to
handle someone like this is to not respond.
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
everything IS possible...
you still don't have ANYTHING that says these
"chips" even exist OR are being used
the 300k fraud was done differently...manually
fraud exists everywhere in every business
but here we are talking about a gas pump
as for the inspectors...
the government contracts out ALOT now
that's the way it is these days
the business has to pay a private company
to prove compliance to laws
haven't you ever talked to someone in India...same thing |
please give us links to the states that contract out for pump verification that you state as fact. and how many they have and what specifically they
do to verify the pumps. and what they do to check the chips and integrity of the electronics we are debating here.
you missed the point of the $300K plus in fraud that just ONE station was caught for, according to our industry spokesperson all amounts of fuel are
closely so closely accounted for by the industry that theft is impossible. Well this and the ones that were in the millions seemed to get by so
easily. and that this station did not know that they had an EXTRA $300k in their year gee? what one single gas station/business is that clueless.
so the point is our industry paid insider said that the companies keep such tight controls that even this could never happen. and we have
examples of station cheating in the millions of dollars. again these are documented.
I have plenty of links showing these chips are real. It is you that can not figure it out. It is you who have not proven that they are not out
there. Please get those convictions of the people reversed and testimonies by those who caught them reversed. After you do that I will believe
you. But you posted not one link to anything credible.
And you made a stupid comment that because you put one liter in a bottle this means it is a myth is over. Can you explain how this would catch a
pump with a remote control or cheats after 5 gallons. Or in my case when the attendant pushed a different hidden button on the pump, after the I
took the pump out of his hand and I pumped a teaspoon and it showed 3 liters. then saw him push an area where there was no button marking and it
worked properly.
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I have an option for all you black helicopter types: bring your own gas into Baja and boycott Pemex.
But like laventana says, even the US stations have remote controlled cheating devices. so you're screwed either way. Sarcasm.
Can we get BajaCactus' take on the liters to pesos debate? |
who is bajaCactus? his name comes up as a
reasonable person...
by the way this was the post after my first post on this forum. He did apologize after I did point out somewhat in kind but politely his insults
were not welcome. He only apologized for the first part not the second part too.
you can see I remained respectful even though that was my welcoming to this forum.
[Edited on 12-7-2011 by laventana]
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
He just wants to be argumentative. He has long ago passed the point of providing information. His posts have turned into a rant. The best way to
handle someone like this is to not respond. |
Is this type of statement/ internet harassment considered
trolling on this forum?
I attacked what I consider a "stupid test" as some sort of "proof" not the person.
And note my first post on this thread I had what i consider two personal attacks on me and it is funny how I did not see any of you go after the
offending poster. That was ok for you to have a poster go personal attack on a newbie. See I do not allow that to happen anywhere in life, i
certainly do not allow it in forums i post in and do not allow it in life in general, actually I have never seen it allowed anywhere in the 8 years or
so of me being on various sites by other posters. That poster did apologize for one of his insults in that post, but he did NOT for the second
one that was also a personal attack IMHO. and again I am not a newbie for forums, just this one.
I do respectfully ask you remove your posts that have nothing to do with the subject what so ever. and i will in kind. if you want to contribute
to the debate with information on the subject I welcome the discussion.
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by laventana
I have plenty of links showing these chips are real. It is you that can not figure it out. It is you who have not proven that they are not out
there. |
A little hesitant about jumping into this psing match, but I'm honestly curious about these chips and had never heard of them before. Would you mind
posting some of those links? |
they are listed in links I provided, with snippets of the information from the links. there have been convictions of one gas company with over 100
chips in place.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64762
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by laventana
| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
I have an option for all you black helicopter types: bring your own gas into Baja and boycott Pemex.
But like laventana says, even the US stations have remote controlled cheating devices. so you're screwed either way. Sarcasm.
Can we get BajaCactus' take on the liters to pesos debate? |
who is bajaCactus? his name comes up as a
reasonable person...
by the way this was the post after my first post on this forum. He did apologize after I did point out somewhat in kind but politely his insults
were not welcome. He only apologized for the first part not the second part too.
you can see I remained respectful even though that was my welcoming to this forum.
[Edited on 12-7-2011 by laventana] |
'BajaCactus' on Nomad is Antonio, the owner of the Pemex in El Rosario and the Baja Cactus Motel, next door. He hasn't been posting much the past
year...
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
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Mood: sharing
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Deputy slams gasoline fraud
http://www.thenews.com.mx/index.php/mexico/M02-26626.html
Says drivers lose 600 million pesos a year at pump
BY YVONNE REYES CAMPOS
Rumbo de México
| Quote: |
MEXICO CITY – Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) Deputy Nazario Norberto Sánchez said on Monday that Mexican drivers lose more than 600 million
pesos a year to fraud at the gas pump.
Sánchez said that lawmakers should introduce more severe penalties for those who tamper with gas pumps for their own benefit, adding that state and
local authorities must step up inspection of gas stations to prevent this type of theft.
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[Edited on 8-15-2012 by laventana]
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Nemo55
Junior Nomad
Posts: 61
Registered: 8-8-2012
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I would like to alleviate some of the misconceptions and misguided information here with some real world experience.
In the past i worked as a Pump Calibrator for a company (unnamed) contracted by the Big Oil companies and Suppliers.
My job was to measure flow through with my equipment (Truck Mounted)and calibrate the pumping rate put out by the Actual pump motor and Valve control
system.
This system of calibration is adjusted and tuned to the Digital machine head (customer read out) via a scaled vernier dial Valve which is located at
the Pump base.
The next time you are at the Fuel pump look at the sticker which says "Volume adjusted for temperature" this means that the rate of fuel pumped at a
given temperature will be different when temperature changes with a given season.
The Oil companies typically adjust the pumps (my job) to give a rate of 2% extra in the cold months and the same calibration will claw back 2% in the
hot months.
This adjustment when performed is very exact and true at the moment of setting, however..the calibration will not be true during the wild swings in
temperature of Day Time -Night Time,,or Summer Time -Winter times due to the very nature of the fuels Gasoline/Ethenol/Methenol as they do indeed
increase in volume and expansion in a given containment.
Typically the oil companies rip the public off to the tune of Hundreds of thousands of dollars every year PER FUEL STATION due to adjustments favoring
their side of the margins.
I know this because it was part of my job to make it this way. (I resented it always) i hope that i have put this argument to rest finally..
Your Welcome
[Edited on 8-15-2012 by Nemo55]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by J.P.
Wouldnt it be easier to learn gallon to leader conversion. |
Gallon to WHAT ??? |
Take me to your leader. I see the liter later
Bob Durrell
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64762
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by J.P.
Wouldnt it be easier to learn gallon to leader conversion. |
Gallon to WHAT ??? |
Take me to your leader. I see the liter later |
Oh wow, I never saw that his 'leader' was a liter!
Thank you Durrelllrobert!
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