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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Please keep in mind, oil/coal production is what makes it possible for productivity and middle class living in extreme cold and hot conditions. It is
what allows people to travel, work effectively, survive and have some security.
3 billion people still have no power and they suffer while living in inefficient circumstances unable to participate in high productivity, they have
much higher birth rates to overcome low life expectancy. Oil energy has reduced birth rates substantially.
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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You're treading on thin ice gnukid, they are going to start yelling at you and calling you names for having a differing view.
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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I'm not unaware of the difficulties in proving food, shelter and comfortable life
However, what we are seeing is a "negative feedback loop" from our environment, from same
Not aware of anyone who is saying this is an easy one ... not by a long shot
Just producing "food" without "chemicals" is a very difficult proposition ... let alone maintaining a Global Economy and a higher standard of living
for all on the planet
I appreciate gnukid's input ... we typically agree on many things, we just don't view this issue the same, at this time
And this is true with many on this issue .... economic "growth" and the impact of same on the environment
Given the effectiveness of pervious attempts to decrease the amount of pollution, and where we are currently ... a change will have to be developed
thru science to achieve a long term solution IMHO ... not thru "Finance" nor "Government"
[Edited on 11-7-2014 by wessongroup]
additionally oil has also produce this:
"Hazardous air pollutants, also known as toxic air pollutants or air toxics, are those pollutants that cause or may cause cancer or other serious
health effects, such as reproductive effects or birth defects, or adverse environmental and ecological effects. EPA is required to control 187
hazardous air pollutants. Examples of toxic air pollutants include benzene, which is found in gasoline; perchlorethlyene, which is emitted from some
dry cleaning facilities; and methylene chloride, which is used as a solvent and paint stripper by a number of industries. Through appropriate
rulemaking, the Clean Air Act list can be modified. A current list of modifications is available. Some clarification on certain pollutant aggregation
(PDF) (8pp, 33k) is also available."
http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/pollsour.html
[Edited on 11-7-2014 by wessongroup]
Oh, btw ... a nice day here in SoCal ... 
[Edited on 11-7-2014 by wessongroup]
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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Saw an interesting discussion between a liberal pundit and a spokesman for the coal industry. There was a great and significant point made by the
spokesman.
When asked what kind of future world the spokesman would want for his kids and grand kids here in the United States, that is, a country dependent on
eco-friendly sources of energy or the evil coal. The spokesman said that, in the big real life picture, China and other emerging countries were going
to continue and increase their coal usage in proportions that would completely dwarf any coal usage that the US could be capable of achieving, even if
it wanted to, and therefore, the amount of coal energy that the USA would use or not use would be irrelevant to the effect on the global environment.
Therefore, he would promote using coal for energy in the USA to at least reap financial benefit, all things being considered.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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Hey guys, learn to use Photoshop to reduce the size of your photos, images, and graphs. It's easy and fast.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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With just two graphs, wessongroup, you have said it all. Good job.
While the issue is truly a complicated one with all kinds of variables, physical dynamics, and differing measurement techniques and results, there is
sufficient agreement on salient facts by both sides to this issue to actually come to a conclusion.
Both sides agree that global temperature changes are due to external forcings such as increased concentrations of greenhouse gases, solar luminosity,
volcanic eruptions, and variations in Earth's orbit around the Sun. And, both sides agree with the laws of thermodynamics and chemistry. Both sides
agree, SHOULD THER BE global warming that consistently trends to certain increased levels, that would be a change that alters climate and would be
damaging to our world and our human existence, as we know it.
The issue comes down to whether or not there has been enough of an increase in greenhouse effect (to put the absorption/re-radiation out of balance
radiating more heat back to earth than radiating away from the earth’s surface) to actually trend an increase in global warming, and, if so, was that
cause due to man’s increased spewing of greenhouse gases (particularly CO2) at an accelerating rate due to the use of fossil fuels since the beginning
of the industrialization period?
There are at least 10 indicators that are used to ascertain and track global temperature, changes and trends. These indicators include but are not
limited to sea level, glacier retreat, global humidity, changes in snow cover and ice extent, anomalous changes in weather, water volume of
glacier/ice/snow melting, average temperatures on land and in the ocean and at its surface, global average temperature itself.
Please note that time frames for consideration of indicators must be appropriate in length to be meaningful. To rest one’s case on an inadequate time
frame is not reasonable and has no credibility.
Evidence of Global Warming Since Beginning of Industrial Era
Anomalous Increase in atmospheric concentration of CO2
Anomalous Increase in global temperatures
Anomalous Sea and surface temperature increase
Anomalous Frequency of hurricanes
Anomalous Reduction in extent of sea ice
Anomalous Sea level rise
Anomalous Melting glaciers and artic ice and polar caps
Anomalous Increase in ocean depth temperature
Anomalous Reduction of polar extent of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean
Anomalous accelerated increase to many of the above since 1950
No sufficient and adequate anomalous "natural" causes for global warming have been confirmed.
Allow me to quote Pompano from this thread:
| Quote: | posted on 11-2-2014 at 04:28 PM
“When trying to understand the world, we should consider theories. Really, it's the facts that matter; and if the facts change, our theories should
too.” |
If you acknowledge the fact that the atmosphere has had an anomalous increase in CO2 composition since the beginning of the industrial era and that
such increase in CO2 does in fact increase the greenhouse effect AND you can't disprove the anomalous trend in the abovementioned indicators, how can
you possibly deny global warming is our situation?
Now, if you disagree with the conclusion of the current existence of a damaging trend of global warming/climate change, please posit your arguments
that adequately and sufficiently refute and disprove the above.
[Edited on 11-7-2014 by MitchMan]
[Edited on 11-7-2014 by MitchMan]
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Saw an interesting discussion between a liberal pundit and a spokesman for the coal industry. There was a great and significant point made by the
spokesman.
When asked what kind of future world the spokesman would want for his kids and grand kids here in the United States, that is, a country dependent on
eco-friendly sources of energy or the evil coal. The spokesman said that, in the big real life picture, China and other emerging countries were going
to continue and increase their coal usage in proportions that would completely dwarf any coal usage that the US could be capable of achieving, even if
it wanted to, and therefore, the amount of coal energy that the USA would use or not use would be irrelevant to the effect on the global environment.
Therefore, he would promote using coal for energy in the USA to at least reap financial benefit, all things being considered. |
Unfortunately China has a similar attitude that the US has: "Why should we curtail coal production when the other major producers are not doing it".
That kind of attitude gets us nowhere. It provides a perfect reason to do nothing - which is the objective to start out with.
This is not much different than the finger pointing that goes on between recreational and commercial fishing in baja. Why shouldn't I return from
asuncion with wheelbarrows full of yellowtail when the commercials are taking so much more.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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New versions of Photoshop Elements is about $60 to $90 USD depending on where you get it. Buy an old version, from ver 5 forward and get it cheap and
keep it forever. You will be able to do most anything you need to a photo. You don't need the most recent versions at all to resize an image. You
certainly don't need any of the CS versions unless you are a professional and have to process hundreds of photos at a time.
Not sure, but it may be possible to resize an image with Picassa, which is a free online sfwe that is pretty good for working on digital images.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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I agree, Skipjack. The higher ground should be observed, even if everybody else doesn't. The coal representative never really answered the actual
question which was " which world do you want your kids and grand kids to grow up in". He just 'rationalized' a response which was nothing more than
an excuse to continue burning coal and not addressing directly the moral aspect of the issue.
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redhilltown
Super Nomad
Posts: 1130
Registered: 1-24-2009
Location: Long Beach, CA
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I think the underbelly of those that deny any sense of climate change is "maybe it is true, but even if WE stop belching carbon into the air, India,
China, Mexico and others will not stop so why should we hurt our economy to help THEM?". Outside of the facts and the science, it is a compelling
argument to many.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5898
Registered: 7-18-2011
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None of this matters. Jesus is coming back soon. 
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
None of this matters. Jesus is coming back soon. |
And man, is he peeed!
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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I currently teach photography part time. Half of the class is lecture on the fundamentals of digital photography, the other half is on teaching
Photoshop fundamentals with specific regard to processing digital images.
I get the question every semester: "what is the difference between CS and Elements?"
I tell them that, for the most part, with Photoshop Elements, you can accomplish 95% of what you can accomplish with the CS version as far as
processing a digital image. And, I tell them, for the class, any version of Elements (past version 3) and CS will allow them to do everything they
need to do on an image that is necessary to process it. CS is for professionals that need to process hundreds of photos quickly and is better (more
efficient) to do graphic alterations to images. So, in my view, if you are not a professional photographer, any old version of Elements will do just
fine.
The key to photoshop is 1) knowing layers 2)knowing what a pixel is 3)understanding RGB color. Then you can pick up any photoshop-like software of
any version and be off and running.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64752
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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All photos should be sized to not distort forum pages.
The max size here is 800 pixels wide.
When you upload from your PC or web site onto your photo hosting site (Photobucket or other free sites) do so AFTER you have selected the upload size.
640 pixels is a large photo on this site and 800 is the absolute max. Anything more will distort the width of the forum, and can throw the image and
all texts on the page off the screen and require sideways scrolling to view and read. Shrinking the monitor image just makes viewing difficult.
On Photobucket there is a small gear symbol to click on when you begin the upload process, to select an uploading size. Do it once and be done with
it, all images you upload to Photobucket for sharing on Nomad or other forums will now fit.
The first post on the Nomad Photo Gallery illustrates the ease of how to do this: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=65085
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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I don't know anything about Lightroom. Never have seen the software. My students ask me about it all the time, but I am quite satisfied with CS and
Elements and those two do everything I need to do.
Should be easy to find out though. Sorry I can't help.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Lightroom - $75
Photoshop CS6 - $600
As they say: enough said.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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Why isn't this thread in the OT?
There is no use in arguing with a global warming denier, when overwhelming the majority of scientist who study this issue, and don't work for "Exxon"
agree Global warning is real, and it's really being accelerated greatly by man and the industrial age.
If a forum member came to "BN" and said the Earth is flat. Would you take the time to try to convince then the Earth is really round, especially when
he is telling you to open your eyes, and you could see the Earth is flat.
It's really a big waste of time trying to debate a GW "denier.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Hey, isn't talking about the weather fun ...
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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Michael Savage
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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