| Pages:
1
..
6
7
8
9
10
..
18 |
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64834
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Thanks Hippie, I appreciate facts and logic in this type of debate subject. I do agree it will happen over many decades, if it is happening at all.
Algore is a politician, not a scientist... Because the mind numbed Hollywood types follow him like lemurs does not give him an ounce of credibility to
me. As I have said before, I camp on a barrier island beach which is exactly the same condition and size it was 30 years ago. The sea level in the
Pacific has not risen. Some beaches on the Pacific are gone from storm waves and the lack of new sand getting to the ocean (dams and river channel
development).
I don't do the 'off topic' forum because it does not work to convince anyone to change their minds and instead creates hostility. Baja Nomads should
be friends... and there is no reason that friends can't have different opinions on politics and other matters.... but not to get mad about it.
|
|
|
tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
David K,
Fair question. I should have said "It only makes sense (to me).........." and it does make sense to me. I have a good feel for the physical world and
science in general, a BS and MS in Physics and 30 years working as a scientist and engineer. But you're correct, I don't have any data to support my
thesis that semi-enclosed, relatively small seas will feel an amplification of the current increase in sea levels.
I'll do some research and report back on what I find.
You're also correct that water seeks its own level, but applying this notion to the oceans is an over-simplification. There's no denying that there is
a lot of "sloshing around" that occurs due to lunar/solar tides and winds (friction at the ocean/atmosphere interface). When water sloshes into the
Sea of Cortez because of one of the several annual hurricanes that spin up off of Mazatlan, will the surge be more devastating because the mean sea
level is higher? I think so. Is the surge higher because a massive amount of water is being pushed into a small area? I think so.
You indicate that you're still a skeptic about global warming by your Al Gore comment. And your skepticism is strengthened by the recent cold winter
months in these northern latitudes. Not much I can say about that except that there is a very strong correlation between winter months and cold
temperatures in temperate latitudes. The global warming time perspective is decades, not months.
But all of this is off-topic. I'll be glad to debate global warming and how it may affect baja with you if you want to start a new thread. It is,
afterall, a very timely and important topic. |
Jeez, is it just me, or does this make any sense? A surge generated by Glacial Melting?
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
Yikes, you folks are good at not letting unsubstantiated statements get by, I like it! A message board with folks that think.
OK lencho, according to links below 1/2 of the current world desal capacity is done by distillation and 1/2 by reverse osmosis, with RO gaining favor.
Regardless it takes work (energy) to take the salt and other minerals out of sea water. Plus what about pollutants like whale crap, dolphin pee, and
tons of dead fish remains? Yum, yum. I guess we can just throw in a bunch of chlorine to take care of that.
There's no free lunch here. RO requires high pressure electric pumps to push the water through the membranes. Distillation requires heat. Desal is
expensive, requires energy, either heat or mechanical, uses complicated machinery, and produces nasty waste products. It's a last resort, pardon the
pun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_distillation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
tripledigitken it's you
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64834
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Yah, there's different degrees of 'surge'!
|
|
|
tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Oldhippie,
To someone that is not a scientist, please explain a surge in the Sea of Cortez generated by Global Warming. Because frankly that makes no sense.
Thanks
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
yes but I don't understand this statement
"Algore is a politician, not a scientist"
Old Al graduated cum laude from Harvard, was a congressman for 8 years, a senator for 8 years, and a vice president for 8 years. I think that
indicates an IQ higher than room temperature. He's probably capable of listening to scientists and understanding what they are saying. He's the
mouthpiece because he has the money, time, and recognition to devout to something he believes in.
This is way off-topic, sorry no more from me except facts to support my position on the huge mistake that LB is.
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
OK tripledigitken
The surge is generated by the hurricanes that always happen every year in that area. It is more devastating because it is on top of a higher mean sea
level. Now, you're probably thinking that the increase in mean sea level is only going to be inches, maybe feet, maybe several feet at the extreme,
nobody knows. What's the big deal? I admit that it seems insignificant, but it's not.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64834
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
OK tripledigitken
The surge is generated by the hurricanes that always happen every year in that area. It is more devastating because it is on top of a higher mean sea
level. Now, you're probably thinking that the increase in mean sea level is only going to be inches, maybe feet, maybe several feet at the extreme,
nobody knows. What's the big deal? I admit that it seems insignificant, but it's not. |
Hurricanes are natural and normal weather conditions, and if there was a surge in the Sea of Cortez from one, then it hasn't changed life along the
shore any more than lunar high tides with wind waves... if that much. In other words, global climate change hasn't changed the shore conditions in
anyone's lifetime here today. It happens, but over hundreds or thousands of years... Ice Ages and Warming Periods happen, over and over. I have dug up
fossil sea shells far above sea level and many miles from the ocean! When the ocean was lower, man walked here from asia... No pollution from man
changed the sea level 10,000 years ago.
The sky is not falling and it is a sad thing when out of work politicians have to scare kids and some adults to create a money making opportunity for
themselves.... (movies, speaking seminars, selling 'carbon offsets').
The world may be cooling or warming... it has done those things since the beginning of time, and man can't cause it or change it, for Mother Nature is
far more powerful than she is given credit for.
I hope this makes sense to more people than just me...
|
|
|
vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
|
|
Fifty years from now we all will know the truth. We will be above, looking down with all our family and ancestors around us, next to the throne of the
man with the white long beard and chubby kids with wings floating around us.
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
And you know this to be fact because...
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The world may be cooling or warming... it has done those things since the beginning of time, and man can't cause it or change it...
|
You're tight with Mother Nature? 
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
David K,
It never has hurt anyone to "bone-up" a bit on any area of knowledge. Perhaps you'll find the scientists at NASA more credible than Al.
"Twentieth century sea level trends, however, are substantially higher that those of the last few thousand years. The current phase of accelerated sea
level rise appears to have begun in the mid/late 19th century to early 20th century, based on coastal sediments from a number of localities."
Also what began in the mid/late 19th century is the "industrial age" - the burning of coal and oil. It's not a coincidence.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
|
|
|
bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
|
|
Seems to me there are a limited number of facts - but unlimited numbers of theories of cause and effect. All by scientists with great credentials.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64834
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Doesn't all this need to be in the Global Warming in Baja thread instead of this Loreto thread??
Hippie: We can only see evidence of the sea level now and in the past... Since there are sea shells all over the desert and the hills in San Diego
County that I have seen, I am going to take a wild guess and say the ocean once covered these places... and man wasn't burning oil or coal then.
Even if we lived the way of the Indians of 200 years ago, the sea levels will change... Volcanos, solar flares, plate tectonics, magnetic poles are
things that man has no control over, and they will be what causes global climate change or sea levels to move.
Dave: Yes, I am... with God too... shalom!
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Wealthy/shmelthy
| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
There's plenty of water out there for the wealthy, |
Wealthy or not, people will pay.
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
"There's plenty of water out there for the wealthy, as long as the energy is available and the enviromental impact is not a concern..."
Excellent point and a good segue back to the issue at hand. The wealthy of LB will first drain the aquifers before desal is implemented. Then the
non-wealthy (the mexicans who live in Loreto) will find themselves having to buy water they can't afford.
I went for a walk this AM with Smiley and Nacho in my beautiful Tijuana neighborhood and studied the gang graffeti. It's amazing how those artistic
folks get their work up so high on billboards and overpasses. These guys will make short work of Loreto Bay. I'll probably have to stock up on spray
paint in Cd. Constiticion. Of course, being an oldhippie, I'm partial to the dayglo colors. Anybody else have any favorite colors? A Santa Fe desert
palette would probably please the owners.
|
|
|
Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
|
|
old hippie....here is your guy.
Of course, his colored chalk graffitti only lasts as long as the next rain....
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Pompano, I like your "two dog art" better. 
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
pompano - give that guy some spray paint!
So I did some research with the goal of exposing these con artists, just call me Mike Wallace. A web site devoted to killing this project is next,
what fun, think I can do it?
Have fun, this is about their sustainable power source, what a hoot!
From
http://www.loretobay.com/loretobay/LBC%20Sustainability%20Ov...
The prime source of electricity will be 20 megawatts of wind power generated on the West Coast near Puerto San Carlos. LB partner is Econergy
International Corp (EIC).
I found this: "1,000 megawatts x (1000 kilowatts/megawatt) / (0.75 kilowatts/residence) = 1.3 million households." at http://www.physics.uci.edu/~silverma/crisis.html. This is an average in California.
So, if 20 megawatts, 20 * 1,300,000 / 1000 = 2,600 households. Whew, I thought they were going to build a much larger development.
Info on EIC:
http://www.econergy.net
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publications/CEC-600-2005-005/C... page 24.
http://www.econergy.net/Asp/DisplayPDF.Asp?NUMBER=270
The discussion on the Loreto Bay project is missing from this document, must be an oversight:
http://www.econergy.net/Asp/DisplayPDF.Asp?NUMBER=319
This is something mysterious on their Investor Relations page:
"This section of the website contains information, the distribution of which is restricted. In particular, such information may not be distributed in
or into the United States, Canada, Australia, The Republic of Ireland, Japan or The Republic of South Africa." Seems pretty strange to me. There must
be a simple reason why.
Sorry all you Americans and Canadians buying into LB, you can't read about the company that's going to power your Margarita blenders and keep the beer
cold.
Good thing I'm a half mile south of the US in Mexico, otherwise I certainly wouldn't read it and it obviously makes a big difference. Here I go......
Oh well, nothing very interesting.
But there is always this. They're listed on the London Stock Exchange. That's gotta be worldwide public info.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/prices/S...
Stock is down over 20% this past 12 months. DOW is up 20% - buy American.
Keep on eye on this "proposed" wind power project on the pacific coast that's going to power LB. It's nothing to be concerned about, some diesel
generators will do the trick until they build this thing and string wires across the mountains. And after it's built keep some batteries on hand for
those calm days on the other side of the peninsula. Is it windy at night? I'm always asleep.
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
Jeez, I'm still at it. I've been reading about Econergy, catchy name huh? I'm beginning to like this company, after all it's CEO is a guy named
Stoner. That used to be this oldhippie's nickname. 
Seems that they're dealing in European carbon emission units. New and very tricky market. I don't quite get it yet but I think polluters can buy these
permits to pollute. The idea is to make it costly to pollute. Good idea. Workable, honest, and financially transparent, who knows? The cost of a
permit (unit) has dropped recently so that's probably why their stock has dropped. The EU aspect is also probably why they're on the FTSE instead of
the NYSE or NASDAQ.
They recently bought a million tons of permits to sell to EU polluters. Plus I think they get permits to sell if they generate clean energy, hence
their interest in baja wind power.
In April 2006 CO2 permits were at 30 euros per ton CO2, last month they were 1.2 euros a ton. Ouch! Wonder when Econergy bought their million tons
worth. BTW right now 1 Euro = $1.36.
Sooooo, to keep this on topic, the main source of power for LB is being financed by a nifty little company made up of people looking to profit by the
Kyoto agreement and its mechanisms. Nothing wrong with profit, and working the green machine is a good thing.
But come on, windmills in Mexico?? Mexico has the second largest oil reserves in this hemisphere, second to Venezuela, and obviously air pollution is
not a top priority. AND their oil is worth $65 a barrel!! The guys at Pemex must be really scratching their heads wondering what the crazy gringos
will do next.
If I'm writing too much, just tell me to shut up, I'll consider it.
http://www.fool.co.uk/news/comment/2006/c060503c.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Emissions_Tradin...
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
6
7
8
9
10
..
18 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
