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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Thank you WillardGuy...
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
you know its nice to hear intelligent conversation about this rather than use it as a segue to push a political agenda from someone who's too stubborn
to bend! don't ya think? carry on gentlemen. |
I also appreciate the gentlemen and ladies who are participating- this has turned into quite a lengthy discussion, with interesting perspectives from
people's experiences, and pretty civil too!
thanks to all who are part of the dialog.
Keep conserving water. Keep planting gardens. Can't hurt, might help...
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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got the veggies in the ground and praying for surf this summer/winter and good times to be had be all...........and TUNA!!!!
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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Woody, you are ahead of me, I am in the process of warming the soil in most of the beds so maybe in about another week those will be ready to be
planted up, the soil here is still mui fria...and have just planted my greens and peas so far, and in the process of hardening-off more seedlings to
go in the soil just as soon as the soil temp is warmer.
awesome that you grow too!
dreaming of tuna too, OH BOY HOWDY are we!! Why did ya go and have to mention that, LOL. However, we are really enjoying the Baja white prawns we
picked up from Costco up here in the PNW that's about as close to Baja as we are eating right now. They are HUGE and the best shrimp we have ever had,
seriously these are primo! Puts us in a Baja state of mind! been eating a lot of salmon too this winter that my daughter-in-law's tribe gifted us with
when our granddaughter was born..freezer is stocked up with it....so life ain't bad at all, not bad at all!!
enjoy the bounty of your garden, Woody....and may the garden gnomes smile upon you and guard your treasure!
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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This world will be a better place when the humans leave the planet and give it a chance to recover from the damage that we have caused. Maybe we could
implement selective breeding like China tried, you know, one child per couple or maybe we should just leave. those of us who can't afford a ticket to
another planet could volunteer to "self destruct" for the good of the planet. It may seem radical now but in a few years it might be
mainstream......just trying to get ahead of the crowd.....
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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SkipJack Joe, I get ya, I really do. Hence why I don't go to doctors and only naturopaths! They treat the root, eh.
You have a very valid point, and I appreciate your point....and I suppose we can learn a lot by analyzing and discussing it....and you are so right we
tend to be in reactive mode instead of proactive, thus why I believe in self-sustainability, and in order to get down to what the problem truly is we
need to not keep putting a bandaid on it and kicking the can down the road, and instead address the issue at it's core, I get that. Understanding the
core of the problem instead of just the symptoms of it, I get that. It's good that these issues are discussed, we hear other points of views and get
informed, and I love a well-rounded discussion from all sides of the spectrum, and being informed is important.
I guess I just get tired of the discussion overall that goes nowhere, not here on BN perse' but everywhere, and all the blame being spewed everywhere,
and things don't change fast enough to keep up with the needs of the people or things don't get done at all because everyone passes the buck, it's all
fluff and propaganda, empty promises etc. I truly am not a pessimist, quite the contrary...it's all just very frustrating that's all. People talk and
talk about how things should be done, and what we all should be doing, and what we are going to do, and what we are doing wrong, but most aren't doing
it in their daily lives...making the improvements that really need to be made in order to effect the larger real change we need in regards to global
warming or water, our food supply and the quality of it or whatever....and so in the meantime years go by and still no progress. We need big change
and that starts with little changes with clusters of people...people getting onboard.
Sometimes I think the problems are so big and such a cluster you-know-what that people just tune out and have stopped caring. And they have an every
man for himself mentality...we'll see how that works for them when the chit does hit the fan.
In my direct experience things CAN and DO change in small groups on a local level which ripples outward. Small groups of people can and DO effect
change more productively. And so while we discuss and argue about politics and think that will change things in as big of a way that is needed, it
really doesn't. And so while we discuss global warming and whether it exists or not, or how we got to the problem of the water issue that we find
ourselves in now,...we could be putting our energy and attention into ways that are better served on our home fronts and in our communities and from
there effect real and permanent change.
The Politicians sold us out a long time ago, on both sides. I would have said, the public servants which is what they are suppose to be, but that's a
joke. They all only serve the almighty Benjamin, lobbyists, and Corporate Gods. They will continue to put the life preserver on themselves first
before we the people. Hence why we see water issues, farmland issues and so on....
we gotta stick together!
just my 2 cents...
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Wow, I never imagined a thread could be treated so handsomely I'd get caught up in the thrust of it, get inspired, aroused. I tell ya, I'm about to
wet my plants.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Have YOU planted this week  ?
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
Every time I get lectured by somebody who touts man caused climate change I ask them if they can find the Great Lakes on a map. Some can believe it
or not!
Then I ask What dug 'em?
GLACIERS!
right!
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
Melted. Wow!
WHAT CAUSED THAT?
GLOBAL WARMING!!!!
So what caused that?
Probably Cave men barbecuing too many Mastodons or maybe some Sabre toothed tigers had a bad attack of flatulence.
"Recon so...but I don't know"
BB:-) |
Ice ages have been advancing and retreating long before man was a twinkle in a gorilla's ancestor's eye---the basic force behind this is the Earth's
slight wobble over a 120,000 yr cycle (correct me if I don't have that number exactly). There is widespread agreement that temps are increasing a
bit, on average, however we are nearing the zenith of the interglacial period so warmer temps are normal. The last interglacial period peak sea
levels were 8 feet higher than now and there was more CO2. As far as I can tell, beyond the politics and hysteria of climate change, scientists are
trying to figure if we are accelerating this upswing, and if we are then we risk breeching the thermal and chemical buffers that would naturally keep
us in the normal glacial cycle. |
Thank you Steve... have a great day! |
This report states the key issue, which may make the current interglacial period different, that its the sudden increase of CO2:
http://whatweknow.aaas.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AAAS-W...
"After remaining relatively stable at around 280 parts-per-million (ppm) for millennia, carbon
dioxide (CO2) began to rise in the 19th century as people burned fossil fuels in ever-increasing
amounts. This upward trend continues today with concentrations breaking the 400 ppm mark just last
year. The rate of increase during the last 100 to 150 years has been much more rapid than in other
periods of the Earth’s history. The warming effect of CO2 and other heat-trapping gases is well established
and can be demonstrated with simple science experiments and satellite observations.
Without the natural “greenhouse” effect from gases in our atmosphere, Earth would be a frozen
planet."
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Yes, the news on this subject is pretty depressing. Not for me, because I'll be long gone by the time things get real bad, but for my kids and their
kids.
I'm still hoping for this solution (from mexitron's article) -
"The effects of CO2 emissions cannot be reversed from one generation to the next until there is a large scale, cost effective way to scrub carbon
dioxide from the atmosphere."
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
Every time I get lectured by somebody who touts man caused climate change I ask them if they can find the Great Lakes on a map. Some can believe it
or not!
Then I ask What dug 'em?
GLACIERS!
right!
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
Melted. Wow!
WHAT CAUSED THAT?
GLOBAL WARMING!!!!
So what caused that?
Probably Cave men barbecuing too many Mastodons or maybe some Sabre toothed tigers had a bad attack of flatulence.
"Recon so...but I don't know"
BB:-) |
Ice ages have been advancing and retreating long before man was a twinkle in a gorilla's ancestor's eye---the basic force behind this is the Earth's
slight wobble over a 120,000 yr cycle (correct me if I don't have that number exactly). There is widespread agreement that temps are increasing a
bit, on average, however we are nearing the zenith of the interglacial period so warmer temps are normal. The last interglacial period peak sea
levels were 8 feet higher than now and there was more CO2. As far as I can tell, beyond the politics and hysteria of climate change, scientists are
trying to figure if we are accelerating this upswing, and if we are then we risk breeching the thermal and chemical buffers that would naturally keep
us in the normal glacial cycle. |
Thank you Steve... have a great day! |
This report states the key issue, which may make the current interglacial period different, that its the sudden increase of CO2:
http://whatweknow.aaas.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AAAS-W...
"After remaining relatively stable at around 280 parts-per-million (ppm) for millennia, carbon
dioxide (CO2) began to rise in the 19th century as people burned fossil fuels in ever-increasing
amounts. This upward trend continues today with concentrations breaking the 400 ppm mark just last
year. The rate of increase during the last 100 to 150 years has been much more rapid than in other
periods of the Earth’s history. The warming effect of CO2 and other heat-trapping gases is well established
and can be demonstrated with simple science experiments and satellite observations.
Without the natural “greenhouse” effect from gases in our atmosphere, Earth would be a frozen
planet." |
Except that we are in a period of low CO2 (345ppm) compared to history and would benefit greatly from higher concentration of CO2 with greater
productivity of plant life and diversity.
There is massive sequestration of CO2 and methane within stratus of ocean and may see huge release such as one finds in a volcanic eruption or other
event. More likely the release of these gases from the ocean and volcanos is not consistent, but sudden as has likely occurred in the past causing
rapid change in climate and environment.
A real concern is the assault on the environment by disparate geo-engineering which experimentally manipulates the jet stream with spraying a
poisonous mix of aerosols and use HAARP which is massively disrupting and poisoning the ecosystem, but if we discuss that, then people will panic and
argue polemic themes.
Who of you will simply look up at the massive amount of spraying of poison daily even over remote regions of Baja and SOC, why not open your yes and
do a little research to be aware of the actual threat of geo-engineering as a catalyst for higher concentration of atmospheric barium, aluminum
particles and reduced solar energy?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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The last time that CO2 was at present levels, there were horses and camels living in the high arctic:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/05/13051...
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Consider the work Dr. Vincent Gray on historical CO2 levels.
Here is a long term chart of CO2
Most nomads would recall that CO2 is the life energy of the earth and without it we would certainly not exist, nor is there any evidence of
correlation to temperature nor evidence of harm.
More to the point, global temperature averages have been stable for more than 17 years and many countries such as the USA have reduced CO2 output over
the last 10-20 years.
The real threat is massive pollution from geo-engineering, military industrial complex and HAARP which is nothing less than an assault on the health
and well being of every person. The measurable increase of aluminum particles is off the charts causing huge health damage to all life.
It really can't be hard to observe the aerosol spraying and witness the affects?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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There is exactly zero evidence of high CO2 levels during periods of glaciation.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Yes gnukid, there are various scenarios showing temperature and CO2 not being correlated over historical time periods. However, the gist of this
report is the concern over the sudden input of CO2 over the last 150 years---a lot of CO2 in a very short time geologically.
[Edited on 3-19-2014 by Mexitron]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18014
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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Reconstructions of global temperature that include greenhouse gas increases and other human influences (red line, based on many models) closely match
measured temperatures (dashed line).[38] Those that only include natural influences (blue line, based on many models) show a slight cooling, which has
not occurred.[38] The ability of models to generate reasonable histories of global temperature is verified by their response to four 20th-century
volcanic eruptions: each eruption caused brief cooling that appeared in observed as well as modeled records.[38]
This set of graphs shows the estimated contribution of various natural and human factors to changes in global mean temperature between 1889–2006.[41]
Estimated contributions are based on multivariate analysis rather than model simulations.[42] The graphs show that human influence on climate has
eclipsed the magnitude of natural temperature changes over the past 120 years.[43] Natural influences on temperature—El Niño, solar variability, and
volcanic aerosols—have varied approximately plus and minus 0.2 °C (0.4 °F), (averaging to about zero), while human influences have contributed roughly
0.8 °C (1 °F) of warming since 1889.[43]
This graph shows fluctuations in temperature and atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide over the past 649,000 years. Temperature changes for
Vostok in Antarctica are shown as a red line. Antarctic temperature is plotted from 421,000 BC to 2000 AD. Temperature is measured as the change from
average conditions for the period 1850 AD to 2000 AD. The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide measured in Antarctica is shown on the graph as
a yellow shaded area. Carbon dioxide concentrations from Antarctica are plotted from 647,000 BC to 1975 AD. A red vertical bar is shown towards the
right hand side of the graph. This indicates the recent rise in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide over the past two centuries, measured
at Mauna Loa on the island of Hawaii. Carbon dioxide concentrations from Mauna Loa are plotted from 1958 AD to 2006 AD. The graph shows that during at
least the last 650,000 years, carbon dioxide levels have tended to track the glacial cycles. During warm interglacial periods, carbon dioxide levels
have been high, and during cool periods, carbon dioxide levels have been low.
p.s. al gore is right, and he did help invent the internet 
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Goat
Your graphs show that CO2 follows temperature to some degree within a few hundred years, as opposed to leading temperature. Do you get the
difference?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
Yes gnukid, there are various scenarios showing temperature and CO2 not being correlated over historical time periods. However, the gist of this
report is the concern over the sudden input of CO2 over the last 150 years---a lot of CO2 in a very short time geologically.
[Edited on 3-19-2014 by Mexitron] |
The earth holds mass quantities of CO2 and methane in the ocean, earth and rock. These are released in huge quantities suddenly, not at a constant
rate, those releases have dramatic affects.
The massive release you reference is a jump from 300 to 400ppm over more than 100 years, while we are still at all time lows of CO2 PPM.
Let's consider the environmental affects of dumping 10000% increase of aerosol aluminum, barium and other particles in the atmosphere to experiment on
how we can alter the jet stream with massive energy input to heat and alter the inosphere and move the jet stream for economic gain/loss, destroying
farming, life and causing harm to every living thing. The results are irreversible and devastating to each of us, but don't look to the EPA, FDA, FAA,
or any Government agency to assist.
Have you noticed the radical change in the jet stream this year and daily spraying, west coast drought, east coast freeze? Massive die offs of
animals, human health issues, with a measurable increase aluminum and barium in the ocean and soil and air?
Does it bother you?
Does anyone look up and see planes spraying aerosol over the SOC and over Baja, back and forth, until a massive white out spreads across the horizon?
Does anyone notice the affect on their solar power, gardens and health. Does it bother you?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18014
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Does anyone look up and see planes spraying aerosol over the SOC and over Baja, back and forth, until a massive white out spreads across the horizon?
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well, i have not noticed this. please do post a pic of the plane(s). what are they spraying? barium and aluminum?
perhaps i should treat this as a great stock buying tip and invest in barium and aluminum futures!
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Let's turn the middle east into a rain forest, and have a vast inland sea form in the interior of Australia. Just imagine: Ayers Island Theme Park.
Time to go north and suck Washington into a raisin.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64705
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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aerosol=water vapor (hot air from engines meets cold air and creates clouds that look like long tracks in the sky).
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