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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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Great, I appreciate the open dialog about ecology.
Can you answer these question:
Is oil/gas a fossil fuel?
Is oil biotic or abiotic or both?
Is CO2 pollution or a life force necessary for our existence?
In past times of of higher CO2 ppm up to 1000 ppm were animals in danger?
Is there global warming over the last 18 years?
Are humans the cause of weather?
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thank you Jack...
The climate has always changed, and man didn't do it for 4 billion years, so why is man suddenly guilty now? Even just 30-40 years ago, the belief was
we were going into a new ice age... The Soviets (Russians today) even proposed placing a large solar magnifier in orbit to warm up Siberia!
CO2 is what all plants breathe, without it the earth would be a dead planet... because plants make oxygen... which is what animals breathe.
Reduce CO2 if you are a plant hater... and an animal hater... or you just hate life (which seems to be the case of so many global warmists)!
Has any of these people been away from the city... out in the vast plains... or even better, in the ocean, out of sight of land? The world is mostly
like that... Cities (populated places) make up a tiny area of this planet that to think this tiny area can change the plane'ts climate is
preposterous.
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Sonora Wind
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WIWA
While I Was Away. Several observations and such. The area between Hermosillo and Kino Bay was an under water sea plain several hundred thousand
years ago. AKA globle warming. The Provo Bench in Utah was formed by thousands of years of wave action when the Great Salt Lake was way deeper than
today. AKA Globle Cooling. There is a larger bench under the current Great Salt Lake, about a 100 feet lower than today. AKA Globle Warming like
nothing you can imagine. All of this and countless warming and cooling cycles before man. The last really good rain we had here in California was in
1861/62. It rained for 42 and 1/2 days. The lake in Central Cal was 300 miles long and the state capital was under 30 feet of water. Al Gore was
right when he said "Winters Coming". No wait that was the dwarf on Game of Thrones.
PS: If you really want to warm things up never mind all the carbon locked up in oil, coal and bio mass. Find a way to release all the carbon stored
in the earths limestone. We're talkin globle cooking.
[Edited on 11-11-2014 by Sonora Wind]
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
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Mood: Optimistic
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Since this thread has pretty well lost any reference to Baja.....Has anyone been watching the US weather?
I'd stick my head out the door tonight if you live in much of the inner USA. It's damn cold out there and getting colder....much, much colder. Like
20-40 degrees below normal.
I'm on the US/Canada border and it's 1 F right now. We're going to be wishing for a little global warming damn soon. Manana I'll take some photos of
the snowstorm.
[Edited on 11-11-2014 by Pompano]
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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Another perspective on recent warm weather and crops..
AUSTRALIA
Honey Gold mango season launches with a record crop
http://www.freshplaza.com/article/130729/Honey-Gold-mango-se...
Record Australian cherry harvest could swamp market
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/record-australian-c...
NZ
NZ: building markets to support record avocado crop
http://www.freshfruitportal.com/2014/11/03/nz-building-marke...
UK
Perfect weather yields bumper cereal harvest for British farmers
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/05/hot-dry-w...
Ideal weather brings bumper English apple harvest
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/14/ideal-wea...
USA
Record crops stretching maximum capacity
http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2014/11/03/record-crop...
Tomato Demand Spurs Record California Crop Amid Drought
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-03/tomato-demand-spurs...
[Edited on 11-11-2014 by gnukid]
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MitchMan
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This is much better than OT. Time and effort is obviously being spent gathering info and doing research and positing resourced info. Much superior
to the frequent OT-like empty barrage of accusation and often unsupported and even undefended opinion alone.
We can agree to disagree, but we all learn stuff and that is a valued expenditure of time. I feel that you can always learn more by listening to both
sides of an argument. Regardless of whichever side you are on, it makes you better if you listen to both sides.
Nomads rock!
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Manana I'll take some photos of the snowstorm.
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I, for one, will be looking for that. Beauty, at least, is not an inconvenient pleasure (no money involved) and therefore we can view it without bias.
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wessongroup
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Dittos 
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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Originally posted by gnukid
1. Is oil/gas a fossil fuel?
Not all. Some oils are synthetic and some gases are not organic.
2. Is oil biotic or abiotic or both?
both.
3. Is CO2 pollution or a life force necessary for our existence?
Both. CO2 is like nitrates. Nitrates are required for plant carbon fixation but when present in large volume they will cause algal blooms and death to
all other organic life. Similarly CO2 has side effects.
4. In past times of of higher CO2 ppm up to 1000 ppm were animals in danger?
Have no idea.
5. Is there global warming over the last 18 years?
Not sure, but 18 years is a meaningless amount of time for a process that occurs at a global level and therefore takes decades to build up. A 200
year temperature increase that coincides with the start of the industrial revolution is a more convincing time line. Don't forget that just a year ago
DK produced a map showing arctic ice had increased in the last 6 months and decreed that global warming was over.
6. Are humans the cause of weather?
Unqualified to know. 97% say yes and 3% say no. I go with the 97%.
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Cliffy
Senior Nomad
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OK question
Can anyone quantify and catalog the types of pollution from the volcano eruptions of the last 150 years and compare that to the same types and
quantify the amounts emitted by mankind and the industrial complex over the same time period?
I'm willing to bet that the volcanoes emit far more in total tonnage than man has ever done.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not for uncontrolled pollution but the earth has a far greater capacity for recovery or "balance" than most care to explore
JMO
What did someone say a few decades ago? FOLLOW THE MONEY?
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
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What is copied and pasted below is based on science by scientists who study this stuff, you know the 97%, so I know at least 50% of those who read it
might dismiss it off hand as :
1) feeble attempt to validate tax payer funded research
2) feeble attempt by the warped liberal latte drinking, prius driving, pinot sipping college professor science types to separate the right from their
hard earned tax dollars for even more funded research
3) a conspiracy theory against all the good that volcanoes bring to mother earth
4) ______________________ fill in the blank
Respectfully - egl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans?
What The Science Says:
Humans emit 100 times more CO2 than volcanoes.
The solid Earth contains a huge quantity of carbon, far more than scientists estimate is present in the atmosphere or oceans. As an important part of
the global carbon cycle, some of this carbon is slowly released from the rocks in the form of carbon dioxide, through vents at volcanoes and hot
springs. Published reviews of the scientific literature by Mörner and Etiope (2002) and Kerrick (2001) report a minimum-maximum range of emission of
65 to 319 million tonnes of CO2 per year. Counter claims that volcanoes, especially submarine volcanoes, produce vastly greater amounts of CO2 than
these estimates are not supported by any papers published by the scientists who study the subject.
The burning of fossil fuels and changes in land use results in the emission into the atmosphere of approximately 30 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide
per year worldwide, according to the EIA. The fossil fuels emissions numbers are about 100 times bigger than even the maximum estimated volcanic CO2
fluxes. Our understanding of volcanic discharges would have to be shown to be very mistaken before volcanic CO2 discharges could be considered
anything but a bit player in contributing to the recent changes observed in the concentration of CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere.
Volcanoes can--and do--influence the global climate over time periods of a few years but this is achieved through the injection of sulfate aerosols
into the high reaches of the atmosphere during the very large volcanic eruptions that occur sporadically each century. But that's another story...
Recommended further reading on CO2 and volcanoes can be found here: Terry Gerlach in Earth Magazine ; USGS
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64752
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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When the ozone scare/ hole failed destroy the earth and only got some aerosols banned... even though volcanoes fill the skies with ozone depleting
gasses. The earth survived.
Then the left switched to blaming cows and the meat/ dairy industry saying cow farts would destroy the earth. We wouldn't all become vegan, sorry
again, and the earth is still here!
Next try to control our lives, the left calls Carbon Dioxide deadly to life on earth! Just that CO2 and is not a 'pollutan't... worldwide plant growth
increases thanks to it, and the result is more oxygen.
I have yet to hear the left scream to ban smoking marijuana... has anyone measured what it adds to pollution figures, with it being legalized more and
more? 
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I have yet to hear the left scream to ban smoking marijuana... has anyone measured what it adds to pollution figures, with it being legalized more and
more? |
Whats Michael Savage's take on that? Dying to hear it.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
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a little trivia, Michael Savage's real name is Michael Weiner. guess the name of his show "weiner nation" didn't have the ring he was lookin for!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Polar Vortex
"A study in 2001 found that stratospheric circulation can have anomalous effects on weather regimes.[28] In the same year researchers found a
statistical correlation between weak polar vortex and outbreaks of severe cold in the Northern Hemisphere.[29][30] In more recent years scientists
identified interactions with Arctic sea ice decline, reduced snow cover, evapotranspiration patterns, NAO anomalies or weather anomalies which are
linked to the polar vortex and jet stream configuration.[28][30][31][32][33][34][35][36] However, because the specific observations are considered
short-term observations (starting c. 13 years ago) there is considerable uncertainty in the conclusions. Climatology observations require several
decades to definitively distinguish natural variability from climate trends.
Southern Hemisphere Ozone Concentration, February 22, 2012
The general assumption is that reduced snow cover and sea ice reflect less sunlight and therefore evaporation and transpiration increases, which in
turn alters the pressure and temperature gradient of the polar vortex, causing it to weaken or collapse. This becomes apparent when the jet stream
amplitude increases (meanders) over the northern hemisphere, causing Rossby waves to propagate farther to the south or north, which in turn transports
warmer air to the north pole and polar air into lower latitudes. The jet stream amplitude increases with a weaker polar vortex, hence increases the
chance for weather systems to become blocked. A recent blocking event emerged when a high-pressure over Greenland steered Hurricane Sandy into the
northern Mid-Atlantic states.[37]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_vortex
Polar Amplification
Polar amplification refers to the observation that any change in the net radiation balance (for example greenhouse intensification) then tends to
produce a larger change in temperature near the poles than the planetary average.[1] On a planet with an atmosphere that can restrict longwave
radiation to space (a greenhouse effect), surface temperatures will be warmer than a simple planetary equilibrium temperature calculation would
predict. Where the atmosphere or an extensive ocean is able to convect heat polewards, the poles will be warmer and equatorial regions cooler than
their local net radiation balances would predict.[2]
In the extreme, the planet Venus is thought to have experienced a very large increase in greenhouse effect over its lifetime,[3] so much so that its
poles have warmed sufficiently to render its surface temperature effectively isothermal (no difference between poles and equator).[4][5] On earth,
water vapor and trace gasses provide a lesser greenhouse effect, and the atmosphere and extensive oceans provide efficient poleward heat transport.
Both palaeoclimate changes and recent global warming changes have exhibited strong polar amplification, as described below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_amplification
Its the "environment" silly ... 
And it all adds up ... one way or another when taken as a "whole" ...
Pot as a major contributor to climate change ... a different thought, in environmental quantitive measurements of pollutions produced by man and/or
women into the "environment"
Stick with numbers which have been found through science and are "empirical"
Great discussion ... thanks to all
Hey, how about the increase CO2 that people will generate from having medical insurance under the new law, more people using transportation to go to
the doctors ... it all adds up
"you don’t need a weatherman
To know which way the wind blows"
Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/subterranean-homesick-blues...
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
...Then the left switched to blaming cows and the meat/ dairy industry saying cow farts would destroy the earth. .....
I have yet to hear the left scream to ban smoking marijuana... has anyone measured what it adds to pollution figures, with it being legalized more and
more? |
Oh, David....you are such a "hater".
Go spark one up and chill....then measure the effects and report back to us
Don't believe everything you think....
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Hey, I want to ... too
As for those concerns about China ...
Bet that took some of the "steam" out of "Bama's" sails ...
China moves quicker on things ... they are Chinese after all ... a very great people
They just needed a helping hand, to take over the world ... 
US, China unveil ambitious climate change goals
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2014/11/12/china-unveil-...
[Edited on 11-12-2014 by wessongroup]
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redhilltown
Super Nomad
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Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Quote: | quote]Originally posted by willardguy
a little trivia, Michael Savage's real name is Michael Weiner. guess the name of his show "weiner nation" didn't have the ring he was lookin for! |
Yeah...he is such a tough guy. All those years of hard core military service and he still doesn't have the guts to use his real name.
[Edited on 11-12-2014 by redhilltown]
[Edited on 11-12-2014 by redhilltown]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Believe this would apply to Baja too
When sitting around a campfire having a few ...
And DK ... think Israel has taken care of your concerns about "Mota" ... and the Green House Effect
Israeli Company 3D Printed a Marijuana Inhaler
http://3dprinting.com/products/israeli-company-3d-printed-a-...
making a buck off ........ of Environmental Concerns ... Its the American way ..
[Edited on 11-13-2014 by wessongroup]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64752
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Here is something to nibble on...
The COLD Truth
[Edited on 11-20-2014 by David K]
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