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RFClark
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Cliffy,
I grew up in LA. As a Child the LA river was known as the deerpee river because between heavy rains the only time there was water in it was when a
deer upstream peeed in it. All of that has changed since LA has increased in size.
The water in the river meets the current very high clean water standards. The treatment plants already treat and discharge into the river. That water
can be distributed as is for watering green areas. This will both impound Carbon and recharge the ground water. It should have been done decades ago.
The expense would be in the distribution system. LA already has problems with a very old water distribution system, potholes and broken sidewalks. The
reduction in Colorado river water will necessitate reusing water going forward. Now is the time to start.
The Hyperion plant is a separate issue. Growing up its outfall turned SM bay into a “desert”. The changes in the clean water laws mostly fixed
that but the plant is still at the bottom of the hill so using that water would require a major pumping station. That said ultimately that too will
happen as water becomes even more scarce. The best use for that treated water is probably direct in-ground injection along the coast as a protection
against salt incursion into the basin ground water supply.
In the past and recently the area governments have been criminally negligent in dealing with water in the basin. The limits on water from the Owens
Valley and the Colorado river will force a “come to Jesus” moment very soon. It would have already happened if not for last winter.
Then there are the San Gabriel and Santa Ana rivers, both of which are underutilized as well.
Basically it comes down to a new car and better compensation for a government employee or upgrading the infrastructure. Guess which has historically
won that battle!
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pauldavidmena
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Meanwhile, Cape Cod is about to tap into energy from a new wind turbine farm located off the coast of Martha's Vineyard.
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pacificobob
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I hope the resulting cases of cancer will be minimal.
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pauldavidmena
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It will be interesting to see how it compares with the diesel plants it hopes to replace. There was a lot of opposition to the project from Day One,
whether it was cancer concerns, sudden interest in marine life, or rich Islanders wanting an unobstructed view of the ocean.
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RFClark
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The project has a few unanswered questions. Upmost is how long will the service life of the turbines be in actuality. The weather offshore is severe.
Turbine corrosion, icing and asymmetrical blade loading from wind gusts, icing as well as spray are some of the issues. How many dead sea birds wash
up is another.
Yes, all of this has been modeled to death. But ***ushima was modeled as well. GIGO!
Murphy can always outbid your worst nightmares!
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pauldavidmena
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Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  | The project has a few unanswered questions. Upmost is how long will the service life of the turbines be in actuality. The weather offshore is severe.
Turbine corrosion, icing and asymmetrical blade loading from wind gusts, icing as well as spray are some of the issues. How many dead sea birds wash
up is another.
Yes, all of this has been modeled to death. But ***ushima was modeled as well. GIGO!
Murphy can always outbid your worst nightmares! |
Each turbine blade is the length of a football field. There's a part of me that doesn't take pleasure in knowing that there is an engineering marvel
pretty much in my backyard. And while wind turbine technology has been well-proven, it's never been done at this scale before. It could be a long,
expensive experiment.
On the other hand, generating energy from a non-renewal source like diesel fuel is unsustainable. And the only nuclear plant near Cape Cod was shut
down fairly recently due to quality issues. I'm glad we're trying something, but I sure hope it works.
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stillnbaja
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| Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena | | Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | The project has a few unanswered questions. Upmost is how long will the service life of the turbines be in actuality. The weather offshore is severe.
Turbine corrosion, icing and asymmetrical blade loading from wind gusts, icing as well as spray are some of the issues. How many dead sea birds wash
up is another.
Yes, all of this has been modeled to death. But ***ushima was modeled as well. GIGO!
Murphy can always outbid your worst nightmares! |
Each turbine blade is the length of a football field. There's a part of me that doesn't take pleasure in knowing that there is an engineering marvel
pretty much in my backyard. And while wind turbine technology has been well-proven, it's never been done at this scale before. It could be a long,
expensive experiment.
On the other hand, generating energy from a non-renewal source like diesel fuel is unsustainable. And the only nuclear plant near Cape Cod was shut
down fairly recently due to quality issues. I'm glad we're trying something, but I sure hope it works. |
 now those are some big azz windmills!
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RFClark
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A quick review of the project raises several questions.
Not seeing the rotating wind turbines is an important aspect of the project. The minimum tip hight above the low mean sea level is just 105’. This
was raised 3’ at the request of the WF operator.
The blades are typical hollow fiberglass carbon fiber wind turbine blades with a C1 wind rating that deliver maximum power at around 10-12 M/sec of
wind and weigh in excess of 40T each. They don’t seem to incorporate any active anti-icing technology.
The issue is will 105’ be enough to clear the wave tops and heavy wind driven spray? The operator requested 3’ additional so perhaps they were
concerned. I would be as a 100’ wave would really spoil your day.
The other issues are icing and asymmetrical loading (the difference in wind speed and direction between the lowest blade tip and the highest blade
tip. (Generally wind speed increases with altitude)
It will be interesting to see how things go this winter. The blades have a rated 25 year life to failure. The experience at the Palm Springs Wind Farm
speaks to failures much sooner. (Less than 10 years)
The other unanswered question is storage as this project doesn’t seem to have any storage component associated with it yet.
The experience in South Australia was that for large wind farms to be useful in supplementing base load a large Storage component was required
(supplied by Tesla). There is currently a very large storage facility being constructed in Beaumont CA. for the Palm Springs Wind Farm.
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Cliffy
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Yes without storage a base load is needed
The dino juice electricity is not going away anytime soon.
There is a recent article showing that an area the size of Texas is needed to fulfill the energy needs of the USA if all renewables are to be used.
That means someone has to give up property somewhere.
Remember all solar fields scrape the ground clean and keep it sterile for the life of the solar farm. Natural ecosystems disappear underneath them.
How many square miles of the earth's eco-system are you willing to give up in the effort to go Green?
Where is the accounting for this in the overall proposals?
We still have the cradle to grave costs to account for on both wind and solar.
Neither can stand alone on its own merits without a subsidy
We still have the disposal problems of hundreds of square miles of either solar or wind to account for.
Now if you want to really go Green then its nuclear power like the Brits are doing (which I'm all in for)
https://flipboard.com/video/stringershub/a6fa67158a
BTW the storage of the nuclear waste problem is all political and not engineering like the solar and wind are.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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RFClark
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Cliffy,
Nukes are good base load power. Hydro is good base load power. Currently California is relying on one nuke and a lot of hydro for base load. Much of
the rest of the base load comes from out of state and country.
Wind and solar are not base load even with attached storrage.
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JDCanuck
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I think the most viable future for non CO2 reliable and rapidly scalable power is this hydrogen fired combined cycle. Byproducts are water, heat and
small amounts of NOX. Even the waste heat can be made use of in greenhouses or other industrial processes.
Combined cycle efficiencies are extremely high (65%), and its very easily rampable. Renewables can be used to produce the hydrogen:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214157X2...
There are already hydrogen fuel cell ships being built to reduce the CO2 impact of global shipping.
Unfortunately, the masses think anything involving combustion is bad and they face a lot of opposition.
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JDCanuck
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When we finally find a way to dispose safely of radioactive waste from Nuclear plants it may become viable as an energy source. Hanford leaks continue
to grow despite past inadequate remediation attempts and governments are still arguing over who is going to foot the bill before they get serious
about rectifying it.
Nuclear power has become a very costly alternative to renewables.
Look at the multiple years arguing over how to dispose of the ***ashima leaks and the cost to effected industries. This one was an eye opener to me as
when it occurred the Japanese were leading in Nuclear safety and technology.
Combined cycle natural gas plants are the only power sources at present that can compare to the very cheap power available from Utility scale solar at
less than half the cost of Nuclear even ignoring long term waste storage costs. They have already broken 60% and are very soon expected to break 65%
efficiencies. France plans on replacing their heavy 75% Nuclear reliance following this latest installation
https://www.powermag.com/worlds-most-efficient-combined-cycl...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/493797/estimated-leveliz...
[Edited on 12-16-2023 by JDCanuck]
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JZ
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How many millions of birds are they going to kill? (Spare me a Lib report downplaying this and claiming cats kill more birds. It's a nice story to
hide the ugly truth of those eye sores).
Plus those giant blades can't be recycled and pollute the Earth.
[Edited on 12-16-2023 by JZ]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
Plus those giant blades can't be recycled and pollute the Earth.
[Edited on 12-16-2023 by JZ] |
You are such a hypocrite, you wee little wanker. If you were concerned that fiberglass turbine blades are not recyclable, then you would not have
bought your overpriced mcboat which is made of fiberglass that cannot be recycled.
Fiberglass is recyclable, there are uses for the material, but no one does it because it is cheaper to landfill the waste.
If we had a policy of taxing petroleum more, people would be forced to recycle fiberglass, which would be better for world.
Sometimes taxes are best incentive for coercing market to find solutions to waste problems 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
Plus those giant blades can't be recycled and pollute the Earth.
[Edited on 12-16-2023 by JZ] |
You are such a hypocrite, you wee little wanker. If you were concerned that fiberglass turbine blades are not recyclable, then you would not have
bought your overpriced mcboat which is made of fiberglass that cannot be recycled.
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Yep, more faux outrage from a guy who brags about how many flights he takes everywhere- his polluting carbon footprint.
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RFClark
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Sorry to disappoint. Those blades aren’t recyclable. Making them generates a fair amount of CO2. Were they not made in France where much of the
power is from Nukes it would be even worse. They are a b-tch to dispose of as well.
I don’t have a fiberglass boat for you to throw shade at. You might wait through winter to see how the first turbines do before taking your victory
lap.
In my opinion the blades come too close to the surface. (105’) We’ll see how that works out and how many birds are killed.
[Edited on 12-17-2023 by RFClark]
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Don Pisto
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
Plus those giant blades can't be recycled and pollute the Earth.
[Edited on 12-16-2023 by JZ] |
You are such a hypocrite, you wee little wanker. If you were concerned that fiberglass turbine blades are not recyclable, then you would not have
bought your overpriced mcboat which is made of fiberglass that cannot be recycled.
|
Yep, more faux outrage from a guy who brags about how many flights he takes everywhere- his polluting carbon footprint. |
hey wanker junior deleted his upcoming flight itinerary....whats up with that?
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
Plus those giant blades can't be recycled and pollute the Earth.
[Edited on 12-16-2023 by JZ] |
You are such a hypocrite, you wee little wanker. If you were concerned that fiberglass turbine blades are not recyclable, then you would not have
bought your overpriced mcboat which is made of fiberglass that cannot be recycled.
|
Yep, more faux outrage from a guy who brags about how many flights he takes everywhere- his polluting carbon footprint. |
Ya, your hypocrisy is glaringly transparent
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RFClark
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This certainly sounds just like Cyber Bullying! I don’t see where a person’s physical appearance, imagined personal and political beliefs are an
appropriate topic for this blog discussion. Especially as it’s a discussion on climate change.
Past being bullying it also lacks class!
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surabi
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What lacks class is posting a brag on a thread about climate change about one's large carbon footprint, as if it's something to be proud of, and then
deleting it, like a coward.
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