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surabi
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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 11:34 AM


"A majority of U.S. voters support civil lawsuits against fossil fuel companies for their role in creating the climate crisis, while roughly half support criminal charges, a new poll from Data for Progress found.

The poll results, released Tuesday, indicate support for the dozens of civil cases against Big Oil currently in U.S. courts, many of which were brought by municipalities or states. In a sample of over 1,000 respondents, 62% of likely voters said that they supported legal accountability for oil and gas companies for "their contributions to climate change," including 84% of Democrats and 40% of Republicans."

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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 06:12 PM


Well, I've been away for a while, that's for sure.

BRIEFLY, although I've been a member of BN since 2006, my last post here was over 8 years ago, and most of my friends, like @BajaJudy, no longer post (I hope she's okay). I've had some significant health issues to contend with over those 8 years, but I'm patched up and doing fine now, and then there was Covid, and family issues, and in the meantime I am getting older. Back in the day, I could be confrontational and contentious here on BN, and I am not proud of that, but I have mellowed in my older age. I have owned a condominium on the Mar de Cortez beach for 20 years, in Los Cabos.....and it has been wonderful, a truly enriching experience. But I have just put my condo for sale and I will be staying closer to my doctors in Southern California. My time in Baja is coming to an end.

@Cliffy asks the question,
"If we spend this 50 TRILLION $$$$ how much would that lower the earths climate temperature"

In the past, I would have answered that question with some confrontational snark. Today, my answer to @Cliffy is, I don't have answers anymore, I just have questions. I can't answer your question because I don't know. My question is directed at myself. What can I do personally to incrementally lower the earth's climate temperature. We here in California, as a Nation/State, we have for the last 69 consecutive days, existed on renewable energy sources (solar, wind, hydraulic, geothermal, etc.) We have not used one drop of non-renewable energy during that time period (petro-chemical, nuclear, natural gas, etc.) Our goal is to achieve 365 consecutive days on renewable energy. It has been expensive to all the citizens in California, but we are putting our money where our mouth is. Personally, I have driven a 100% electric car for the last 6 years, I put solar panels on the roofs of my last two homes, I recycle on a daily basis (general garbage, plastics/aluminum, and green waste), I use drought tolerant landscaping with drip irrigation, I have a relatively inexpensive "time of use" electric plan, and I am mostly vegetarian now. This was the question and challenge to myself. And, as a result, I love breathing all that clean air on my 5 mile walks each day. For me, climate change is not a matter of cost savings to me personally, it is a matter of life and breath!

How much is the future well being of your children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren worth to you? So @Cliffy, you will have to ask your question to yourself and come up with your own answer. I have asked that question to myself and the answer was self-evident. You may come up with a different answer. Just remember you are always welcome to be my neighbor in California where EVERYTHING is more expensive but worth every centavo to do my very small part in lowering the earth's climate temperature!

Take care, amigo
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AKgringo
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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 06:27 PM
OXXO, you should check in more often!


Common sense should be more common around here.



If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!

"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 07:11 PM


Have fun killing Big Oil! BTW other than $7/pack smokes what else did you get when they killed big tobacco?

The government kept the money then they will keep the money now and you get to keep paying. Oil won’t go away. In fact cleaner air will just make it hotter sooner, as it has for the last 30+ years! More than 40% of the increase in the temperature is thanks to the clean air lobby!

I don’t now and never have smoked!

Also not buying much gas either! Mostly all electric!
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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 07:49 PM


Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Have fun killing Big Oil! BTW other than $7/pack smokes what else did you get when they killed big tobacco?

The government kept the money then they will keep the money now and you get to keep paying. Oil won’t go away. In fact cleaner air will just make it hotter sooner, as it has for the last 30+ years! More than 40% of the increase in the temperature is thanks to the clean air lobby!

I don’t now and never have smoked!

Also not buying much gas either! Mostly all electric!


Smoking is interesting story. In my lifetime i have watched smoking tobacco disappear (gone are indoor smoking, smoking sections on planes, smoking in offices).

I have watched vaping and pot become mainstream.

All good, i suppose (at least net positive).

The tobacco settlements did good for many, so what if you quibble over some details of spending? It is govt, all is compromise, govt is for all and not only for you.

Oil will go away someday even if we drill, baby, drill. It is a finite resource.

If society democratically chooses to reduce oil use, i am all for it. Democracy in action. Public policy doing social engineering. All makes life interesting.

Dont panic!

You people that get panicky over demise of oil remind me of smokers that got panicky when smoking was eliminated from public spaces. You anxious oil addicts should try pot edibles :light:
I really think cliffy, clarkles and dk would be more tolerable people if they smoked some weed now and then!






[Edited on 5-29-2024 by mtgoat666]




Woke!

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oxxo
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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 10:01 PM


Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Oil won’t go away.


In my opinion, yes and no. The oil industry is doomed here in California. We are transitioning to a fully electric automotive transportation in a very short period of time. Sure some will want to keep their antique ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles but gasoline will become even more expensive and difficult to find, here in California at least. You will have to answer your own question whether an ICE vehicle is worth it to you and your family. On the other hand, the BIG Oil companies are starting to install automotive electric chargers on their properties. That gives some clue as to what BIG Oil is thinking the future holds for the oil industry in California. They will probably charge exorbitant electric rates to maintain their corporate profits. Me? I could care less what they charge for electricity because I charge my car at home at night when I sleep from my rooftop solar panel battery storage and electric rates are their lowest. This is the same strategy that the majority of California BEV drivers are using. So In my opinion, Big Oil is going to have an increasing problem trying to be viable in this State.

Quote:
In fact cleaner air will just make it hotter sooner, as it has for the last 30+ years! More than 40% of the increase in the temperature is thanks to the clean air lobby!


Interesting statement! I have a question for you, can you please point me to the source of your information?

muchas gracias

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RFClark
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[*] posted on 5-28-2024 at 10:33 PM


Link’s right here.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/04/11/1091087/the-inad...

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oxxo
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[*] posted on 5-29-2024 at 05:58 AM


Gracias, @RFClark. This is an interesting article. It appears to say that some limited release of high sulfur fuel emissions via commercial shipping MAY reduce the currently rapid effects of global warmer in the atmosphere (There’s ongoing debate over whether researchers can yet detect that acceleration and whether the world is now warming faster than researchers had expected.)" But elsewhere in the article it states that reduction of greenhouse gases over landmasses (like California) is essential to addressing climate change. The study of this new science is called "Geoengineering." This science is far from agreement on the wisdom of releasing high sulfur fuel emissions over offshore oceans will accomplish at this point. However, the article emphatically states the reduction of greenhouse gases over land masses (like the USA) is essential to reduce the damage being done to the environment.

@RFClark in my opinion you overstated your viewpoint and what the article says, and that led to confusion on my part. On the other hand, I appreciate that you brought this article to my attention because that viewpoint does merit my attention as the science of geoengineering continues to mature.

In conclusion, there is nothing in your referenced article that indicates I should discontinue my personal strategy to reduce my personal carbon footprint: "Before we go any further, let me stress: cutting air pollution is smart public policy that has unequivocally saved lives and prevented terrible suffering." However, I do look forward to having further discussions with you on this topic in a non-confrontational manner.

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RFClark
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[*] posted on 5-29-2024 at 11:44 AM


Well, I said nothing about what individuals should or should not do. Personally we have full off the grid solar and EVs.

Here’s a paper cited in the MIT article that states the problem more clearly.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-024-01324-8#Sec2

There is a different paper cited that offers a solution that keeps the clean air and the cooling effect.

https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/13/12059/2013/acp-13-120...

If the temperature continues to rise millions will die according to the experts. If we decrease the rate of increase by creating clouds over the ocean using higher sulphur fuel thousands will die from the pollution.

That seems a difficult choice until you consider that the transportation systems vital to supporting life as we know it also cause the deaths of 10s of thousands and injury to millions (?) more each year. Nothing in life is without risk!

For all the handwringing and carping it is a fact that technology is responsible for more benefit to a greater number of people. The same data that shows increased deaths from pollution also shows an increase in life expectancy from in the 40s in 1900 to in the high 70s today. Seen any Typhoid or Polio outbreaks lately? Medical, Water and sewerage treatment technology are responsible!




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oxxo
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[*] posted on 5-29-2024 at 12:45 PM


Quote:
[quote=1267284&tid=96458&author=RFClark]

Personally we have full off the grid solar and EVs.


Gracias for doing your part, every little bit helps!

Quote:
If the temperature continues to rise millions will die according to the experts. If we decrease the rate of increase by creating clouds over the ocean using higher sulphur fuel thousands will die from the pollution.


The way I read the subject articles, using high sulphur fuels for transoceanic shipping is a controversial subject, even among the expert scientists. Further study needs to be done before a definitive answer can be determined. I hope that the issues and impacts can be minimized so that a progressive solution can be found.

Quote:
it is a fact that technology is responsible for more benefit to a greater number of people. The same data that shows increased deaths from pollution also shows an increase in life expectancy from in the 40s in 1900 to in the high 70s today. Seen any Typhoid or Polio outbreaks lately? Medical, Water and sewerage treatment technology are responsible!


I totally agree with you on that point! As a result of a complete medical overhaul and rebuild of my cardio/pulmonary systems, my cardiologist says that with the current rapid increase in medical technology, I should live into my 100's. He says that a cure or effective treatment for the most aggressive forms of cancer is just around the corner!!! Hey! maybe we can arrange to have adjacent beds in the old folks home a few years from now. (wink, wink)
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mtgoat666
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thumbup.gif posted on 5-29-2024 at 08:41 PM
world bicycle day!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:bounce:
June 3
:bounce:

:bounce:
:bounce:
:bounce:




Woke!

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[*] posted on 5-29-2024 at 09:07 PM


Thanks to Tesla, and the now not so popular Musk, California is well populated with both EVs and the infrastructure of chargers to support them. Not so easy in Baja or even here in Canada where the demand for EVs far outstrips the available chargers to actually make them practical. Before our governments legislate the replacement of alternative vehicles and continues to drive their costs up with protective tariffs, perhaps they should copy Musk and ensure the infrastructure to support them exists. Consequently, people no longer want EVs and are falling back to hybrids which benefit the environment far less. How many chargers to this point has all that money transferred to the government produced? Last article i read stated 8 built so far across the whole of the US.
I've seen the same reaction every time a foreign country provides cheaper and far more efficient solar panels to the US as the present reaction to BYD EVs. Up go the tariffs to protect the higher priced less efficient panels built in the US, making them less affordable to the average person. Do they want to improve the environment, or do they want to continue to protect inefficient local manufacturers?

[Edited on 5-30-2024 by JDCanuck]




A century later and it's still just as applicable: Desiderata: http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
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oxxo
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[*] posted on 5-30-2024 at 04:59 PM


Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  
Thanks to Tesla, and the now not so popular Musk,

California is well populated with both EVs and the infrastructure of chargers to support them. Not so easy in Baja or even here in Canada where the demand for EVs far outstrips the available chargers to actually make them practical. Before our governments legislate the replacement of alternative vehicles and continues to drive their costs up with protective tariffs, perhaps they should copy Musk and ensure the infrastructure to support them exists. Consequently, people no longer want EVs and are falling back to hybrids which benefit the environment far less.

How many chargers to this point has all that money transferred to the government produced? Last article i read stated 8 built so far across the whole of the US.


I was an early enthusiastic adopter of Musk's EV concept, 10+ years ago. I even purchased stock in TSLA. However, much has changed in recent years as Musk continues to go off the rails. My daughter, who is a Doctor of Clinical Psychology, thinks that Musk may show evidence of adult Autism, having never met the man. I am no longer supportive of Musk, who has some serious psychological issues in my opinion. I have also divested from all my Tesla stock. Now, Musk is being considered for an advisory role in a future Presidential administration. However, as a result of a judicial determination today, I think it is unlikely that Musk will ever have an advisory role in any future Presidential administration.

In my opinion, it is a mistake to depend on a government or private investment public EV charging system. Here in California, we have our own Class 2 charger in our garage (like I do). We charge our cars at night while we sleep! Anyway, anyone who is considering the purchase of a BEV should also plan installing a Class 2 charger (50A, 240V) in their garage at a cost of $500 to $1000 (depending on your electric panel) in California as a necessary addition to your BEV purchase.

Hummm, I know that that there has been several hundred public BEV chargers installed within 30 miles of my location in California in the last 6 months.....certainly not 8 nationally. I know that several hundred installed recently in Canada and Mexico (but not in Baja California yet). BEV owners in foreign countries should put pressure on their respective national governments to expand their commitment to EV's. I know there are private charging systems in Baja. If you spend the night at Terrasal Hotel in GN, you can recharge your EV, gratis, while a paid guest there.


Quote:
I've seen the same reaction every time a foreign country provides cheaper and far more efficient solar panels to the US as the present reaction to BYD EVs. Up go the tariffs to protect the higher priced less efficient panels built in the US, making them less affordable to the average person. Do they want to improve the environment, or do they want to continue to protect inefficient local manufacturers?

[Edited on 5-30-2024 by JDCanuck]


I have to agree with you on that account! The US Labor Movement is a powerful political lobby and consequently legislating themselves out of existence! I give you as examples: USPS, the US railway system (when was the last time you saw a caboose at the end of a train, other than a museum?), public utility systems, retail goods store closing down right and left, and more. The US Labor Movement is in deep trouble. The US solar panel manufacturers need to use the technology that is available to them to compete or else they deserve to die!
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[*] posted on 5-30-2024 at 05:22 PM


Forcing Americans to accept 3 bowls of rice a day and a bicycle as a “good life” while our “betters” regale us about how “lucky” we are to even have that from the doors of their private jets is where all of this is headed!

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[*] posted on 5-30-2024 at 10:40 PM


Who is forcing Americans to accept "3 bowls of rice and a bicycle"? (Honest Question)
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[*] posted on 5-30-2024 at 11:15 PM


Pretty interesting how some of the same people who berate those who understand how dire the climate change situation is and accuse them of exaggerating and overreacting then ridiculously exaggerate what they think the "climate czars" are going to make them do.
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[*] posted on 5-31-2024 at 02:53 PM


In my opinion, @Surabi, EVERYONE on BN needs to cool the rhetoric on controversial subjects, particularly ME! Although Science is in nearly unanimous agreement that greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere is causing severe climate change, there is a vocal minority that believes that what we are experiencing is the normal climate variation that has occurred over the measurable lifespan of the Earth, and that things will return to "normal" at some unknown time in the future. But will it be an Earth that we would recognize?

I invite everyone to join me on solutions to climate change (either real or imagined), personally, nationally, and globally. I will continue to implement my plan to reduce my personal "carbon footprint." I will be long gone before life, as we know it, will be unsustainable. So, I do this not to benefit me, but for those that follow me. I have enjoyed a wonderful life and I would like those that follow to have the same opportunity I have had. I want to leave Mother Earth the same as when I was born, if not an even better place!

I am still waiting for the answer to my question, "Who is forcing us to accept 3 bowls of rice a day and a bicycle."? Actually, that sounds like a pretty healthy lifestyle! Throw some home grown vegetables in that rice and ride an electric bike! (I already have an electric bike for 5 years now and I am 80% vegetarian - going to a vegan party tomorrow night!) And research has shown that an electric/peddle bike gives more exercise than a peddle only bike!!! who would've thought that?

Live Well @Surabi
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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 5-31-2024 at 03:05 PM


Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Forcing Americans to accept 3 bowls of rice a day and a bicycle as a “good life” while our “betters” regale us about how “lucky” we are to even have that from the doors of their private jets is where all of this is headed!



What’s wrong with rice and bikes?

I got 4 bikes. Every one provides me more joy than my truck or car. Much prefer riding my bike over driving my car! The bicycle is the greatest machine ever invented!







Woke!

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[*] posted on 6-1-2024 at 07:43 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Forcing Americans to accept 3 bowls of rice a day and a bicycle as a “good life” while our “betters” regale us about how “lucky” we are to even have that from the doors of their private jets is where all of this is headed!



What’s wrong with rice and bikes?

I got 4 bikes. Every one provides me more joy than my truck or car. Much prefer riding my bike over driving my car! The bicycle is the greatest machine ever invented!





Of course you want to dictate conservation while simultaneously bragging about having 3 more bicycles than you need. I imagine that same attitude is prevalent with all of your material possessions. Talk the talk but not walk the walk. You are one of the first on this site to tell people what they don't need or shouldn't do. Nice...

Meanwhile, those pushing the "science" on climate change are still buying beach houses for 2nd and 3rd homes knowing full well there is no meaningful sea-level rise on a planet that is essentially a closed loop.

Luckily, those with sound reasoning know the old palm tree is safe from water encroachment unless there is a plate shift or something more meaningful.... all of which are TOTALLY out of the control of humans.
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[*] posted on 6-1-2024 at 09:36 AM


AKGringo: The beetle kills up here hit a high a few years back and the devastation was very discouraging if you rode through the devastated areas of single species replanted forests. Fortunately, what was not immediately logged and consequently burnt in the recent wild fires is now recovering with a far more resilient mix of fire encouraged varied species. Nature has an amazing way of healing itself if we let it



A century later and it's still just as applicable: Desiderata: http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
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