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JZ
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 02:51 PM


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
JZ- Calling attention to predictions that didn't unfold exactly as stated is the idiot's deflection response to discussing things that are happening, factually, right now.

How many times are you going to post a link to that Leonard Nimoy video? It speaks to the paucity of available information to bolster your opinions that you can't find anything new to try to debunk and trot out the same old thing endlessly.

[Edited on 11-3-2023 by surabi]


Listen to the video. Especially around the six minute mark. They are saying all the same things you are now, but in reverse.

He's got a guy on there who says it is his life's mission to study the climate. He says we have just ended a period of wariness and have started into an Ice age.

You aren't changing global climate. Focus on more achievable things like improving air quality and other pollution, providing energy at a lower cost, etc. EVs have a big role to play, just not the way you think.

Also push for the use of nuclear. Stop trying to scare ppl to win votes!


[Edited on 11-3-2023 by JZ]




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AKgringo
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 03:56 PM
How the next Ice Age might start


I remember hearing this theory in the mid 70s, but back then the focus was on the northern hemisphere.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55663444

This is not my mantra, just pointing out more "science"!





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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 03:59 PM


S,

You continually make the case that no matter how ineffective it will be we must sacrifice and try to do something. I can't argue with the try to do something part.

That said sacrifice is the least effective and far from the only thing that we can do. We have the ability to reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the earth today. In fact papers have been published that warn that the increased number of satellites reentering the atmosphere may already be starting to do exactly that.

Why then is sacrifice the first choice rather than technology especially when a majority outside the US are willing to do absolutely nothing to solve the problem except of course to be paid by us?
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 04:30 PM


You can't make this stuff up.

European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the global climate, researchers say
https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2...




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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 08:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
You can't make this stuff up.

European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the global climate, researchers say
https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2...


Interesting. More evidence that species population (in this case a quasi-pandemic) affected climate prior to the industrial revolution and beginning of petroleum addiction :light:

You would have to be a really dumb rube to deny that post-industrial revolution carbon emissions have not affected climate!




[Edited on 11-4-2023 by mtgoat666]




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surabi
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 08:16 PM


Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  


Why then is sacrifice the first choice


Your language characterizes the attitude that leads to people balking at accepting that things have to change and the more people who get on board, the better.

When you characterize something as a "sacrifice", it conveys that you are painfully giving up something that is of utmost importance in your life.

Changing things about the way we live, the products we are accustomed to consuming, the way we use things, does not equate with "sacrifice". Altering one's lifestyle doesn't have to be a negative thing.

Sure, at first one might find it less convenient, but once you get used to it, it might result in positive things that you never anticipated.
Take stopping at a charging station to charge your EV. Friends of mine who switched to an EV, rather than feeling irritated that they had to "waste time" waiting for it to charge or for it to be their turn, started using that time to sit back and relax, listen to a podcast, or read a book they never used to have time for, take a nap, go through their hundreds of emails and delete and organize them.

When a lot of stores stopped using plastic bags and people had to bring their own reusable bags or buy one, people got used to it pretty quickly. At first you might go out shopping and forget your bags, but soon new habits were formed- you hung your bags by the front door and remembered to grab them when you left the house the next time, or had a few extras in the car in case you forgot.

As far as why changing one's habits is the first choice, for one thing, it's something everyone has personal control over, whereas there are much fewer people who are capable of developing new technologies. So you start with the things you can personally do to make a difference, while being supportive of those who are developing the new technologies.

Of the 3 "R"s- reduce, reuse, recycle- reduce is first. If we reduce our consumption to start with, asking ourselves "Do I really need this?" then we don't have to find a way to reuse it when it's no longer fit for the purpose we bought it for, and we don't need to have as many facilities to sort, transport and melt down or otherwise recycle it.

Reducing our consumption, what you refer to as "sacrifice" is the first key to a healthier environment and to the resources we do have lasting longer.




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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 09:05 PM


S,

It doesn't matter what you call it. It won’t solve the problem. The US shutting down and going to 0 immersions won't solve the problem because we’re only a small part of a world wide problem which the world won’t solve.

That said we can solve the problem through the appropriate use of technology. The only problem is you and the rest of the human beings are the problem faction don’t want to solve the problem that way.

Only making sure that most everyone except those in charge settle for less will do for them. Right now as we speak there is a spacecraft on its way to an minor planet worth more by far than the world’s GDP.

There’s no shortage of opportunity or wealth out there. We need to solve the problems here and move on.
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surabi
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 09:44 PM


"The US shutting down..." ? How dramatic.

Same old shtick with you- Those folks won't cooperate, so it's pointless for us to bother. I might as well throw garbage in my yard, because my neighbors do.
Of course if the US went to zero emissions it would make a difference. Everything makes a difference. And if we all stopped buying cheap crap made in China, China's emissions would go down, too.

"The only problem is you and the rest of the human beings are the problem faction don’t want to solve the problem that way.".

The "problem faction"? What a load of crap and where did you get the absurdly erroneous notion that we are against new technologies to help solve the problems? Of course I support technology that will help lessen our negative impact on the planet. However, technology that has the potential to create more disaster, like nuclear power plants, are not what we should be investing in. We need to invest in technologies which have the least potential for harm.
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 10:23 PM


Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
S,

You continually make the case that no matter how ineffective it will be we must sacrifice


The truth is, she isn't sacrificing anything. I'll stop there.

She expects the rest of us to give up our lives for some govt. declared "Common Good."




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RFClark
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[*] posted on 11-3-2023 at 10:54 PM


S,

Technology might create a disaster or it might prevent one. I didn’t say don’t do anything. I said do something that will work. Use the technology we have to reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the earth. That will actually stop the increase and reduce the average temperature. It doesn’t require the participation of the unwilling either.

Past that it’s happening as we speak. Currently more satellites are burning up on reentry each year. The products of the aluminum being burned up reflect sunlight back into space. Doing enough of that will stop the increases in temperature buying time for other changes to be made and take effect..
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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 12:38 AM


Quote: Originally posted by JZ  


She expects the rest of us to give up our lives for some govt. declared "Common Good."


Making a few changes to how we live isn't "giving up your life".
And don't try to put your words in my mouth- "govt. declared Common Good".

The people I hang with do things for the common good because they care about others and the environment, not because the govt. told them to. I know that may be an alien concept to you, actually caring about something other than yourself.

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by surabi]

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by surabi]
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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 08:31 AM


Is that palm tree under water yet?:O
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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 08:50 AM


The argument that "why should the US do anything to mitigate climate damage because other countries aren't doing so." Reminds me of a scenario of not wanting to bail out a leaking lifeboat because the other occupants are sitting on their hands.
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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 09:13 AM


Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
The argument that "why should the US do anything to mitigate climate damage because other countries aren't doing so." Reminds me of a scenario of not wanting to bail out a leaking lifeboat because the other occupants are sitting on their hands.


Maybe change course on foreign policies that have enabled wars around the globe. How much C02 has been put in the atmosphere from them. Probably more than has been reduced in the US in the last 2 years?

The climate crisis is a grift to distract youth from all their horrendous decisions.




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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 09:43 AM


PB,

The issue at least from my viewpoint isn’t that we shouldn’t do anything. It’s that we should do something that will solve the problem.

What has been proposed won’t, if done unilaterally, won’t materially effect the problem and giving up on improving or even maintaining our standard of living in the process helps no one.

Those quick to condemn the West for “not doing enough” usually won’t condemn the China-Russia axis for doing worse and usually want money as compensation.

What we can do unilaterally, that will work is build upon what is already occurring. Reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the earth’s has been proven to do exactly the same thing as reducing the CO2 levels. The difference is everyone must be on board to reduce CO2 enough which is not going to happen as China alone produces enough CO2 to continue its increasing levels.

There are now papers pointing out that then amount of Aluminum Oxide in the upper atmosphere as a result of increased satellite reentries is beginning to reflect sunlight which will effect the climate especially if that amount continues to increases.

With temperatures rising it seems that increase should be encouraged as less sunlight definitely won't make it hotter.

Only the US has the ability to cause this increase to happen. If things are really that bad we should act unilaterally.

This buys more time to allow the other green technologies to mature and spread.

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by RFClark]
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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 10:38 AM


Goat,

China has invested billions in sea level military facilities and billions more in nuclear power plants. They are on a course to lead not follow anyone. They have recently declared local wether data a state secret and ordered the more than 3000 private weather stations off the internet. They consider StarLink a threat to their security. The current “Dear Leader” wants to be remembered as regaining Taiwan.

There will be a military action with China in the next decade that could go nuclear.

“Dear Leader Jr.” won’t even be noticed!

[Edited on 11-5-2023 by RFClark]
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[*] posted on 11-4-2023 at 11:08 AM


So Goat,

Are you typing this on a non-chinese computer? If you have an old 8” floppy CPM system that still works please post a picture of it. If not I’ll bet your computer cost a lot more than a “T”!

FYI, those red hats that make you vomit are made in Carson CA which has not yet been subjugated by the PLA!

[Edited on 11-4-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-5-2023 by RFClark]
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RFClark
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[*] posted on 11-5-2023 at 10:23 AM


“Former head of NASA’s climate group issues dire warning on warming”

“For several years, Hansen and Simons have proposed that the recent and ongoing surge in a wide range of global climate indicators—not just average global temperatures—may be driven in large part by a sharp reduction in tiny sulfuric particles produced by burning shipping fuels and other fossil fuels, and by other industrial processes.“


https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/11/former-head-of-nasas...
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[*] posted on 11-5-2023 at 03:31 PM


Lencho,

The Chinese and Indians do burn a lot of coal. Both are building nuclear plants to fix that. Mostly to help fix their own air quality problems and save foreign exchange costs buying coal.

The problem is that some of those who post here think Hansen walks on water! That said it is well known and widely ignored that aerosols do reflect sunlight. Volcanos emit lots of Sulphur compounds as did Sudbury Ontario until the Ontario Government was caught being the largest Acid rain producer in NA.

All of that sulphur from Sudbury, ships, diesel trucks, power plants, your gas stove and more have been relentlessly persecuted by the Greens. Along comes Hansen et al saying yes but the faster rise in temperature caused by the “clean air” is probably going to be worse!

The “good news” is we can replace the Sulphur compounds with other compounds like Aluminum Oxide which works better and is far less toxic, that will get the Greens shorts in a knot too, because that’s “evil weather control!

You just can’t make this stuff up!

[Edited on 11-5-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-10-2023 by RFClark]
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[*] posted on 11-6-2023 at 10:24 AM
Booming solar energy is encroaching on cropland


The rapid spread of solar power plants onto cropland is having increasingly detrimental impacts. Targeted policy and technological solutions are urgently needed to resolve the tension between renewable energy and food production.



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-023-01304-1
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